Comments on: Religious Life Is No Popularity Contest http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/ Catholic Sisters and Nuns in Today's World Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:56:49 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Nuns: Perceptions and Assumptions « A Nun’s Life http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-539 Nuns: Perceptions and Assumptions « A Nun’s Life Tue, 29 May 2007 00:59:37 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-539 [...] 5. What evidence do you have that “of course, since many wear no habits, they no longer get any vocations”? That is one hefty statement that needs some serious backing up in order to make. The media has been throwing around similar statements and people seem to just assume that it’s true. Where is this information coming from? There are communities that do not wear a recognizable habit that are growing in number, and there are communities that do wear a recognizable habit that are not growing in number. Plus, why are numbers the measure of a religious community? (I’ve addressed this before, should you want to read my observations.) [...] [...] 5. What evidence do you have that “of course, since many wear no habits, they no longer get any vocations”? That is one hefty statement that needs some serious backing up in order to make. The media has been throwing around similar statements and people seem to just assume that it’s true. Where is this information coming from? There are communities that do not wear a recognizable habit that are growing in number, and there are communities that do wear a recognizable habit that are not growing in number. Plus, why are numbers the measure of a religious community? (I’ve addressed this before, should you want to read my observations.) [...]

]]> By: Brian Soul' Liven http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-538 Brian Soul' Liven Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:12:59 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-538 im glad to hear from you Br. Philip. I just dont understand why bishops or vocations directors wouldnt want their seminarians in cassocks or clerical shirt. The only reason I can think of is if a seminarian conducts himself in such a way that brings embarassament to the diocese or religious order. Or maybe it could be related to the idealogical battles that took place post-Vatican II that people associate with Cassocks, habits, and clerics. Who knows!? I just feel that the "de-cassockfying" (haha if thats a word!) plays right into the hands who want all traces of God eradicated from society. im glad to hear from you Br. Philip. I just dont understand why bishops or vocations directors wouldnt want their seminarians in cassocks or clerical shirt. The only reason I can think of is if a seminarian conducts himself in such a way that brings embarassament to the diocese or religious order. Or maybe it could be related to the idealogical battles that took place post-Vatican II that people associate with Cassocks, habits, and clerics. Who knows!?

I just feel that the “de-cassockfying” (haha if thats a word!) plays right into the hands who want all traces of God eradicated from society.

]]> By: Br. Philip http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-536 Br. Philip Thu, 23 Nov 2006 21:49:57 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-536 I too wish that more religious and priests would wear their habits and cassocks. In my community, we all wear habits, but not when we go out shopping. Also, the seminarians in my diocese are told not to wear cassocks or clerical shirts. I've talked to a few about this and most of them wish it would be otherwise. I too wish that more religious and priests would wear their habits and cassocks. In my community, we all wear habits, but not when we go out shopping. Also, the seminarians in my diocese are told not to wear cassocks or clerical shirts. I’ve talked to a few about this and most of them wish it would be otherwise.

]]> By: Brian Soul' Liven http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-537 Brian Soul' Liven Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:09:23 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-537 Im probably going off topic here, but I wish more religious and priests would wear their habits and cassocks more often! The rational is quite simple for me without any of the so-called "Liberal vs. traditional" camps. As we all know, Western Civ, is radically secularizing itself from its Christian roots, removing any traces of the transcendent from public places. But when a priest or a sister walks in, say, a shopping mall with their habits/cassocks flowing in the wind, people take notice. And maybe for a brief moment they thought about something greater then the 20% off of the Gucci sunglasses. In other words, its a silent witness of Christ with an exclamation point! Now Im not trying to reduce the Christian life to mere clothing, but we humans are visual creatures and the externals do play an important role (Just look at the grand cathedrals of Europe). Countless of people think the Church is dying, old, and rigid, but when they see a young religious or priest in their habit/cassock, it crushes there stereotype. As a seminarian, I have had nothing but positive reactions when ive worn my cassock during youth conferences or clerics around my home parish which would not have happened if i was wearing my GAP sweatshirt. To end with a comment from a young women in Arizona after seeing a group of seminarians walking around in their cassocks, "it was so affirming in my faith to see you guys in your..uhh.. black robe thingys. Where im from, you dont see that anymore." God-willing, and I get ordained in 2011, I hope to be one of those priests that you rarely see in public without clerics or cassock, and yes, even when i make a quick run to my local Starbucks for a Caramel Macchiato w/ extra caramel... mmmmm. Duc in Altum!!! Im probably going off topic here, but I wish more religious and priests would wear their habits and cassocks more often! The rational is quite simple for me without any of the so-called “Liberal vs. traditional” camps. As we all know, Western Civ, is radically secularizing itself from its Christian roots, removing any traces of the transcendent from public places. But when a priest or a sister walks in, say, a shopping mall with their habits/cassocks flowing in the wind, people take notice.

And maybe for a brief moment they thought about something greater then the 20% off of the Gucci sunglasses. In other words, its a silent witness of Christ with an exclamation point! Now Im not trying to reduce the Christian life to mere clothing, but we humans are visual creatures and the externals do play an important role (Just look at the grand cathedrals of Europe).

Countless of people think the Church is dying, old, and rigid, but when they see a young religious or priest in their habit/cassock, it crushes there stereotype.

As a seminarian, I have had nothing but positive reactions when ive worn my cassock during youth conferences or clerics around my home parish which would not have happened if i was wearing my GAP sweatshirt. To end with a comment from a young women in Arizona after seeing a group of seminarians walking around in their cassocks, “it was so affirming in my faith to see you guys in your..uhh.. black robe thingys. Where im from, you dont see that anymore.”

God-willing, and I get ordained in 2011, I hope to be one of those priests that you rarely see in public without clerics or cassock, and yes, even when i make a quick run to my local Starbucks for a Caramel Macchiato w/ extra caramel… mmmmm.

Duc in Altum!!!

]]> By: Meribeth, SND http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-534 Meribeth, SND Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:46:32 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-534 I always liked the titles of Van Zeller's "WE" books, "We Sing While There's Voice left", "We Die Standing up", "We Live With Our Eyes Open," "We Work While The Light Lasts," Religious life is about the "We". That is why I came to relgious life, and that is why I have stayed through the chaos of the 60's, and radical changes till now. The “we” is why I renew my vows daily and regularly examine my practice of those vows. I bring my mind and heart back to my initial reasons for choosing religious life, and refresh my resolve to be true to those reasons. For me it never was about a habit. I sought and found a community working for one goal-- to be a communal instrument in God’s hands, so He could transform the world. Yes, religious life is about the "WE." If young women today look deeply at their reasons for seeking religious life, they will realize that, Sisters old or young, in habit or not in habit, forge on.... "We Sing While there's Voice left", "We Die Standing up", "We Live With Our Eyes Open," "We Work While There's Light left,", There is plenty of mission for all of us to do. Our aim is to work our way out of a job! May the Kingdom come! I always liked the titles of Van Zeller’s “WE” books, “We Sing While There’s Voice left”, “We Die Standing up”, “We Live With Our Eyes Open,” “We Work While The Light Lasts,”

Religious life is about the “We”. That is why I came to relgious life, and that is why I have stayed through the chaos of the 60’s, and radical changes till now. The “we” is why I renew my vows daily and regularly examine my practice of those vows. I bring my mind and heart back to my initial reasons for choosing religious life, and refresh my resolve to be true to those reasons.

For me it never was about a habit. I sought and found a community working for one goal– to be a communal instrument in God’s hands, so He could transform the world. Yes, religious life is about the “WE.”

If young women today look deeply at their reasons for seeking religious life, they will realize that, Sisters old or young, in habit or not in habit, forge on…. “We Sing While there’s Voice left”, “We Die Standing up”, “We Live With Our Eyes Open,” “We Work While There’s Light left,”, There is plenty of mission for all of us to do. Our aim is to work our way out of a job! May the Kingdom come!

]]> By: Steve http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-535 Steve Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:16:31 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-535 One of the things you ask in your posting is whether men's communities are experiencing an upsurge in members wanting to wear the habit. From my experience as a former Dir. of Vocations, I would definately say yes. Young(ish) men coming into religious life, even in communities where the habit has not been given or worn in any official way for years, are requesting to wear it. As I questioned some of these men about their reasons for wanting the habit, it seemed to stem from a sense of belonging and wanting to be identified by it in some public way. I always felt that one did this by words, deeds, and attitudes. You are right on target about numbers. According to recent studies done on seminary life in the last century, there was a blip on the screen post World War II when seminaries were filled. Many institutions built massive buildings in the vain hope that this trend would continue. The numbers we have now in our seminaries is much more in keeping with our history in North America, especially the United States and Canada. In the history of religious life, communities have come and gone. Somtimes it was because the mission or need within the church they were founded for was accomplished or no longer needed. There have probably been some that disbanded because of poor management, scandal and all the other reasons any institution dies. After all, the Spirit will do what the Spirit will do. In our time now, there are new communities coming into existence who see a mission or a need and are responding. They may have 5 members or 90. It does not matter. What matters is the life and vitality, the organic nature of religious life that continues to live and die. One of the things you ask in your posting is whether men’s communities are experiencing an upsurge in members wanting to wear the habit. From my experience as a former Dir. of Vocations, I would definately say yes. Young(ish) men coming into religious life, even in communities where the habit has not been given or worn in any official way for years, are requesting to wear it.
As I questioned some of these men about their reasons for wanting the habit, it seemed to stem from a sense of belonging and wanting to be identified by it in some public way. I always felt that one did this by words, deeds, and attitudes.
You are right on target about numbers. According to recent studies done on seminary life in the last century, there was a blip on the screen post World War II when seminaries were filled. Many institutions built massive buildings in the vain hope that this trend would continue. The numbers we have now in our seminaries is much more in keeping with our history in North America, especially the United States and Canada.
In the history of religious life, communities have come and gone. Somtimes it was because the mission or need within the church they were founded for was accomplished or no longer needed. There have probably been some that disbanded because of poor management, scandal and all the other reasons any institution dies. After all, the Spirit will do what the Spirit will do.
In our time now, there are new communities coming into existence who see a mission or a need and are responding. They may have 5 members or 90. It does not matter. What matters is the life and vitality, the organic nature of religious life that continues to live and die.

]]> By: lily http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-533 lily Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:50:22 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-533 Oh, now I see what you were trying to say, Jen, sorry for messing that up! Oh, now I see what you were trying to say, Jen, sorry for messing that up!

]]> By: Jen http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-532 Jen Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:30:35 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-532 Oh nononono, Lily. That wasn't my point at all. I'm saying that perhaps the rise in vocations to contemplative orders is a sign that there's something missing in the societies where they're growing. We definitely need both apostolic and contemplative orders, and we're all richer for their vocations. My point was that the issue of whether an order is growing or shrinking probably has nothing to do with the clothes they wear, but is part of a host of larger issues. (Contemplative vs. apostolic being only one of them, and I realize that a lot of orders have both, such as the Dominicans--one I'm more familiar with, since I go to a Dominican parish.) Bah. teach me to blog at work... Oh nononono, Lily. That wasn’t my point at all. I’m saying that perhaps the rise in vocations to contemplative orders is a sign that there’s something missing in the societies where they’re growing. We definitely need both apostolic and contemplative orders, and we’re all richer for their vocations. My point was that the issue of whether an order is growing or shrinking probably has nothing to do with the clothes they wear, but is part of a host of larger issues. (Contemplative vs. apostolic being only one of them, and I realize that a lot of orders have both, such as the Dominicans–one I’m more familiar with, since I go to a Dominican parish.)

Bah. teach me to blog at work…

]]> By: lily http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-531 lily Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:51:59 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-531 Jen, repectfully, I disagree. I have seen (and visited!) quiete a few orders that have a very active spirit, wear habits, and are growing, I dont think it is just the cloistered contemplatives. (I do agree that there is more of a need for contemplation in the general world, though). Some of these orders are the ones mentioned in the article, Srs. of Life, Srs. of St. Ceclia, Srs. of Mary. Jen,
repectfully, I disagree. I have seen (and visited!) quiete a few orders that have a very active spirit, wear habits, and are growing, I dont think it is just the cloistered contemplatives. (I do agree that there is more of a need for contemplation in the general world, though). Some of these orders are the ones mentioned in the article, Srs. of Life, Srs. of St. Ceclia, Srs. of Mary.

]]> By: Jen http://anunslife.org/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-530 Jen Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:30:29 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/religious-life-and-the-numbers-game/#comment-530 I refuse to use the terms "traditional" and "modern," or whatever epithet people are using at the moment to describe religious life. I think there's a place for both cloistered and apostolic orders, and that they're both valuable. I wonder, though, if the rise in communities with a habit is more due to the fact that they're usually more contemplative than apostolic. The contemplative dimension of our faith is one which isn't emphasized in a lot of parishes, and I think there's a need for it. I refuse to use the terms “traditional” and “modern,” or whatever epithet people are using at the moment to describe religious life. I think there’s a place for both cloistered and apostolic orders, and that they’re both valuable. I wonder, though, if the rise in communities with a habit is more due to the fact that they’re usually more contemplative than apostolic. The contemplative dimension of our faith is one which isn’t emphasized in a lot of parishes, and I think there’s a need for it.

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