Comments on: Saint John of the Cross http://anunslife.org/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/ Catholic Sisters and Nuns in Today's World Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:23:59 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Pete http://anunslife.org/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-613 Pete Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:35:39 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-613 Thank you Jim and Sr. Julie. Jim, your phrase "A man can feel caressed and cherished by God" interests me very much, because I had been wondering if this feeling is psychologically unhealthy for males. Your response is reassuring. For reasons that I cannot fully explain yet am sure come from God I have been drawn towards the Carmelites and their spirituality, which I do view as feminine in many ways. When I first thought of joining a third order I got interested in the Franciscans, but when I realized it would be a lifetime commitment I decided to explore several orders carefully. All I can say is that every time I pray with Carmelites, especially communal silent prayer, I know I am in the right place for me. Moreover, Teresa of Avila's book The Way of Perfection, which I was advised to read, is one of the most sensible spiritual books I have ever read. Sister, as I have said, I hope to begin formation as a secular Carmelite, so I will be looking toward to what the Carmelite might say. You might ask why I don't just ask the secular Carmelites myself. I did, but they are non-committal. One has to attend meetings for a year before he can begin formation, so, to some extent, he has to try and figure things out for himself. That is not a criticism. I think the Carmelites want you to be very sure you are called to their community before beginning formation, and I agree with that. I found this thread in the midst of internet surfing about John of the Cross, and want to thank you again for raising the topic. Thank you Jim and Sr. Julie.

Jim, your phrase “A man can feel caressed and cherished by God” interests me very much, because I had been wondering if this feeling is psychologically unhealthy for males. Your response is reassuring. For reasons that I cannot fully explain yet am sure come from God I have been drawn towards the Carmelites and their spirituality, which I do view as feminine in many ways. When I first thought of joining a third order I got interested in the Franciscans, but when I realized it would be a lifetime commitment I decided to explore several orders carefully. All I can say is that every time I pray with Carmelites, especially communal silent prayer, I know I am in the right place for me. Moreover, Teresa of Avila’s book The Way of Perfection, which I was advised to read, is one of the most sensible spiritual books I have ever read.

Sister, as I have said, I hope to begin formation as a secular Carmelite, so I will be looking toward to what the Carmelite might say. You might ask why I don’t just ask the secular Carmelites myself. I did, but they are non-committal. One has to attend meetings for a year before he can begin formation, so, to some extent, he has to try and figure things out for himself. That is not a criticism. I think the Carmelites want you to be very sure you are called to their community before beginning formation, and I agree with that. I found this thread in the midst of internet surfing about John of the Cross, and want to thank you again for raising the topic.

]]> By: Sister Julie http://anunslife.org/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-612 Sister Julie Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:06:09 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-612 Thanks, Jim, for your response. I'm grateful for your articulate, thoughtful response. Pete, Jim is one person I asked to weigh in on this. I've also asked a Carmelite to jump in to get a Carmelite perspective on this, but perhaps the holidays backed things up. Will check. Thanks, Jim, for your response. I’m grateful for your articulate, thoughtful response. Pete, Jim is one person I asked to weigh in on this. I’ve also asked a Carmelite to jump in to get a Carmelite perspective on this, but perhaps the holidays backed things up. Will check.

]]> By: Jim http://anunslife.org/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-610 Jim Thu, 04 Jan 2007 04:37:13 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-610 Sister Julie, thank-you for asking me to comment regarding the matter of men assimilating into their spiritual experience the words of this precious poem, as well as the beautiful words of the Song Of Solomon found in the Old Testament. Much can be said, but I will say only a little for now. ... As we know, in marriage, a man is to "love" his wife, and the woman is to "respect" her husband. This is a premise that is a core dynamic of what God intends for peaceful marital union. For the man who has loved his wife in the sacred experience of intimacy, that man can understand the words of this poem by having primarily been the "giver" of this loving experience to his beautiful wife and bride. You see, the "giving" and receiving of intimate love are merely opposite sides of the same coin. A man can feel caressed and cherished by God, because he as a man has caressed and cherished a woman in sacramental loyalty. As what defines manhood is to cherish and love regardless of circumstances, the man in his relationship with God can feel protected, loved and cherished within strong arms of an ever present, all powerful Diety. Also, when a man truly practices acts of love and commitment to his wife, that experience becomes the true path to loving himself (also stated in scripture). Interestingly, for a man, especially a man, when that man feels lonely and needing love, he can feel love "after he gives love". It is how man is made psychologically. It is his path to fulfillment. ... Yes, the gentleman is correct. Taken further, "we men need to not be like women." Often we process thought and emotion within ourselves different than women do, but remember, God made us this way. We men need to truly be "men". This is what is sadly missing so vitally in the world. By being men, loving at all costs, then in our intimate loving, true loving of the woman with whom we are "one", the man knows entirely from a different perspective the tender, and merciful caress of our Heavenly God. That God will be our husband for all eternity. Sister Julie, thank-you for asking me to comment regarding the matter of men assimilating into their spiritual experience the words of this precious poem, as well as the beautiful words of the Song Of Solomon found in the Old Testament. Much can be said, but I will say only a little for now. … As we know, in marriage, a man is to “love” his wife, and the woman is to “respect” her husband. This is a premise that is a core dynamic of what God intends for peaceful marital union. For the man who has loved his wife in the sacred experience of intimacy, that man can understand the words of this poem by having primarily been the “giver” of this loving experience to his beautiful wife and bride. You see, the “giving” and receiving of intimate love are merely opposite sides of the same coin. A man can feel caressed and cherished by God, because he as a man has caressed and cherished a woman in sacramental loyalty. As what defines manhood is to cherish and love regardless of circumstances, the man in his relationship with God can feel protected, loved and cherished within strong arms of an ever present, all powerful Diety. Also, when a man truly practices acts of love and commitment to his wife, that experience becomes the true path to loving himself (also stated in scripture). Interestingly, for a man, especially a man, when that man feels lonely and needing love, he can feel love “after he gives love”. It is how man is made psychologically. It is his path to fulfillment. … Yes, the gentleman is correct. Taken further, “we men need to not be like women.” Often we process thought and emotion within ourselves different than women do, but remember, God made us this way. We men need to truly be “men”. This is what is sadly missing so vitally in the world. By being men, loving at all costs, then in our intimate loving, true loving of the woman with whom we are “one”, the man knows entirely from a different perspective the tender, and merciful caress of our Heavenly God. That God will be our husband for all eternity.

]]> By: Pete http://anunslife.org/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-611 Pete Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:19:15 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-611 Sister, Did you ever get your knowledgeable friend to comment on John's poem? Or was hudds53 the friend you promised? Even though I said I lot here I would appreciate hearing a comment from an expert in the subject. Sister,

Did you ever get your knowledgeable friend to comment on John’s poem? Or was hudds53 the friend you promised?

Even though I said I lot here I would appreciate hearing a comment from an expert in the subject.

]]> By: Joe http://anunslife.org/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-619 Joe Fri, 22 Dec 2006 00:46:41 +0000 http://nuns2day.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/saint-john-of-the-cross/#comment-619 Pete, I understand what you're saying. I don't see that as being too feminine for a man. In the end, consummation involves total letting go (surrender) for both lovers. Pete, I understand what you’re saying. I don’t see that as being too feminine for a man. In the end, consummation involves total letting go (surrender) for both lovers.

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