Welcome to A Nun’s Life, and welcome to our online discussion with Sister Mary McDevitt, a Catholic Sister in my IHM Congregation and a spiritual director. Sister Mary will be joining Sister Maxine Kollasch and myself in order to listen to and respond to your questions about discernment and how to know God is calling you.
This discussion takes place right here on this page in the comment section (below). We begin at 7 p.m. EST and go until 9 p.m
I asked Sister Mary a few preliminary questions just to give us a glimpse of who she is. Read more on my original post introducing Sister Mary.
Sister Julie: Who are the IHM Sisters of Monroe, Michigan? What is your spirituality and mission/ministry?
Sister Mary: The IHM Sisters were founded in 1845 for the education of children in the area. Through the years we have expanded to broader and wider ministries. After a long history of classroom teaching, we have come to understand education in many forms through parishes, retreats, and other ministries. Some still are called to ministry within schools.
The spirituality of IHMs is to share in the work of Jesus to bring about the “dream of God” for this world and for even for the whole planet. Since our earliest history there is a predilection to minister to those who are in dire straits either directly or through education indirectly.
Sister Julie: What was it like for you when you discerned becoming a Catholic sister and entering the IHM community?
Sister Mary: In the 1950s when I considered my future, vowed religious life was the only way I could think of enjoying a life given within the Church for the building up of the Body of Christ. Lay ministry was not very much in vogue. The vowed life seemed to be as a way to give my life totally to the work of God.
Sister Julie: What kind of work do you do at Visitation Spirituality Center?
Sister Mary: Visitation North Spirituality center is a place of welcome for all those who seek some space and time for themselves. We offer spiritual direction, at home retreats, as well as thematic presentations such as Lent, grief, and creative space for artists.
Please extend a warm welcome to Sister Mary McDevitt, IHM.
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A few questions:
1) Why is there a Call? How do you know if it is valid? What are some characteristics of a Call?
2) What are some characteristics of a good discernment to religious life?
3) How do you know you will be happy in religious life?
Thanks!
Pax Tibi,
Discerninglife25
Good questions. Throughout history people do feel attracted or inclined to a certain calling or career. Religious language and scriptural faith would name this as a call. In the Hebrew scriptures, for example, there are situations of a CALL. Moses, the Prophets, Abraham …
Signs of a valid call might be:
1) You are sure of God’s goodness, and God is leading you to peace.
2) When you come close to God, you ask repeatedly, “What do you want of me? Show me, lead me.”
3) You benefit from the help of a soul friend or spiritual companion. This other person who knows you could give you feedback if your call seems congruent with your life.
4) You may really get excited and feel generous in response to a call to work for the service of people. Service is the hopeful goal of discernment. You may have a special attraction to help those on the margins of society, e.g., I want to help make the world a better place.
The question about being happy is tricky. In most life choices there is a formation or an engagement time. One takes time to test out the reality of the life one is choosing. One cannot act too quickly.
Also … As one matures one sees that all life has mountains and valleys, light and darkness.
Hi Sister Mary:
Do you believe God has a special “vocation” in mind for every single person? When God communicates vocation, why do you feel God does not always make sure an individual is able to discern it? From my experience, sometimes God speaks loudly while other times God’s voice is so faint as not to be heard. I’m talking about vocations such as religious and single life and marriage as well as a person’s career/ministry. Do or could vocations change with time?
I ask this because it seems some individuals know what they want to do with their lives at a very young age. Some say stuff like “I knew I wanted to be a sister at the age of 5″ or “I always wanted to have kids.” Others were sure of a future career in medicine or education before they even got out of grammar school. For others, these decisions takes some serious consideration. And for yet others, they never seem to be able to discern a vocation.
In some ways it appears that God has very focused ideas for the lives of some while others are left to make their own way, with little interest or intervention from the Divine. I don’t believe God loves either type more or less. But God has expectations for the one while little or no expectations of the other (Of course, we are ALL called to love, etc.).
Thanks. dee
Hi Dee, You are right, God loves us all. I also believe that God speaks to us all. I know that we can learn to be a bit quieter and listen for God each day.
Discerning a vocation can take quite a while. Maybe a retreat or a period of prolonged prayer is needed.
The Scriptures show God blinding someone or rendering someone speechless. Would call that loud and clear. (Paul)
Also there is the soft and gentle voice of God who was not in the whirlwind but in the soft and gentle breeze. (Elias)
Yes I think that when we try over time to live what we honestly perceived was a call from God, we may experience struggle and turmoil. This happens in marriages as well as in the call to religious life of brothers, priests or sisters. We have to wait, to listen to struggle, and to figure out if the turmoil lasts a long time and becomes destructive. If so generous prayer and help from another may free up the person to respond anew to what might be a second call. This cannot be without serious prayer and consultation.
Thanks, Dee.
Is turmoil inside a vocation a sign that one is NOT called to that way of life?
Just a note that questions about may take a bit more time to respond to just because they take a “little” time to think and reflect on! So hang in there with the pauses and don’t forget to refresh your screen.
You can email me your questions for Sister Mary or comment below.
I don’t know about turmoil, but I do believe there is some element of dis-comfort…one’s call in life is not about undue suffering; it is not about suffering for the sake of suffering. For me, the best way to describe it is a ‘holy longing,’ which is about discomfort with the way things are–dissatisfaction with injustice, violence and poverty, in the world, and acting out of that holy longing for peace, wholeness, reconciliation. There is a certain amount of unsettledness with being a seeker, and to the extent that God calls us to see with new eyes the injustices, but also the beauty of the world and to continual conversion.
If one is in turmoil most of the time after a few months, it is wise to seek an outside person to offer one feedback. This could be a spiritual director, close friend, or counselor. Life may be difficult but we believe that God wants our peace at least most of the time. When struggles come we endure them the best we can, but not forever.
One needs to clarify the source of turmoil in order to determine how it relates to one’s call to a particular way of life.
What would you advise one do when one feels, after prayer and reflection, that God may not have a specific “vocation” for him/her? Should one abandon the intense spiritual work (I’m not referring to ordinary prayer here) and simply live a good Christian life (obviously with an open heart and mind in case God comes a knocking)? Thanks. dee
Hi Dee, I still believe that God calls each one to a life of love, prayer, and service. This is quite wonderful. The vocation part may be a simple as doing a simple job well, a clerk, an office manager. The hope is that one is in communion with God.
I believe maybe we have heightened the word “vocation” to mean outstandingly special. It may be simple.
What helps is to ask yourself each day: Where was God speaking to me today in my work and in my prayer? That is really quite faithful and beautiful.
I totally agree with Jill. In our culture there is both a holy longing for God and an upset over the grave injustices in our world, and the peril of our planet.
I responded more to personal inner turmoil of unknown origin that may need to be worked out with someone who is wise. The turmoil may be taking too much spiritual energy from the health of person.
A very great comment, Jill.
I am interested in the call to religious life and I was wondering if you knew of any orders that still wear habits?
There are many orders that wear a habit. I would encourage you to check in with your parish or the vocation office of your diocese to see which communities are living and ministering in your area. One of the most important things in discerning a “fit” with a community is to see how it feels to be with them, if their life and mission resonate with your spirit.
When would be a good time to start the formal process of discernment? I’ve kind of felt a calling from God to the religious life for about four years now and am pretty sure that is my vocation. I feel a longing to give my life totally to God. I am a freshman in college. Is it too early to start looking at this closely?
Thank.
Therese, No, I think it is a good time to take action. Maybe you could make a weekend retreat somewhere. Then you could talk it over with someone there.
It is important to respond to the call with serious intent, even if you do not act on it right away. Seek guidance. I will pray for clarity and courage for you.
Thank you, Sr. Mary. That helps. Sometimes I do get the feeling that God is pleased with me (most of the time – smiles!) even though my life is not full of spectacular feats of extraordinary achievement. I do what I can and make little differences here and there. Honestly, I probably do tend to view “vocation” as something grandiose. And for some, as you said, it can be quite simple.
I really liked jill’s post where she talks about “dissatisfaction with injustice, violence and poverty … longing for peace”. It evokes in me another question about vocation.
I realize it is probably difficult to generalize, but what personal qualities, views and possibly even practices (daily Mass attendance, blessing others, prayer before meals, adoration, etc.) do you find most often in very young women (i.e., teenagers and those in their early 20s) who have a vocation to the religious life?
dee
you’re welcome, deerose.
I don’t know if this will shed light on your question, but here I am, a novice with the IHMs (Sr Julie and Sr Mary’s community), and I didn’t really think I had a call to religous life. After college, I did a volunteer program, and that’s where I met IHMs. And then I started spending time with sisters (we had lots of common interests, so peace/justice meetings, that sort of thing) and then I started going to prayer gatherings and speakers the ihm’s hosted. All this time, I was so. very. sure that I wasn’t called to be a sister. Yet, over time, I started to see a pattern, and got in touch with the ihm’s vocations director. (OK, that is a really condensed version of the past 10 years of my life)
I was (and still am) attracted to the focus on justice, the ministries, the outreach of the IHMs. So that’s where I’m coming from.
I believe it would be important since you are attracted to the things of God to discover what prayer suits you best.
At the least I would say every night:
What you are grateful for in the day …
What you are not grateful for in the day …
What you need help with …
And then just be still with God for 10 minutes.
Spiritual reading is a big help. Many people have found help from the works of Ron Rolheiser. You could go to Amazon.com for his books. I recommend his books for hints on where to find your own call to serious prayer.
What should one do if they are having difficulty with their prayer life? I know this doesn’t do exactly with vocation, but prayer is needed to discern.
We all have at some moments difficulty in prayer, One has to determine why? If we are regular people who pray we may call this dryness. Sometimes one is trying to pray as they can’t, and not as they can. This quote came from the letters of Don Chapman: “Pray as you can and not as you can’t.”
If someone is familiar with the Word of God in the Hebrew Scriptures or in the Christian Scriptures, one can use the Word of God with some structural help.
1) Read the Word
2) Meditate (think) about the Word
3) Pray words to God about what one has heard
4) and then just listen to God’s Word in response.
There are guidebooks for this process which is called “Lectio Divina”. It’s very ancient and very new. It contains four kind of prayer. See where you like to be in this four-part series of prayer styles.
Discerninglife25, One of the most beautiful passages in the entire Bible for me is a specific part of the Passion sequence in the New Testament: the hour when Jesus is praying alone in the Garden of Gesthemane, after the Last Supper with his beloved friends, the apostles. “My Father, if it be possible let this chalice pass from me. Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt”. And a second time, “My Father, if this chalice may not pass away, but I must drink it, thy will be done” (Mt 26″39 -42, excerpts). Jesus, the God/man, longed to remain among his beloved friends, enjoying the goodness that God provides us here on Earth, teaching us how truly human he was in his divinity: “the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak”, even for Jesus in that moment in which he anticipated responding to the ultimate commitment of *his* very particular call . His honesty with himself and God about the human struggle that preceeded his full assent to God’s will bowls me over ever time I read that passage. I find it emblematic of God’s profoundly generous and loving and forgiving heart: we can be honest that the most loving and joyful and life-giving sacrifice might also cost us some human pain and loss and we might try to beg off because of it but, in prayer and with spiritual direction, we may find that God is calling us nonetheless and will help us move through the discomfort.
Thank you Jean. One beautiful prayer for us when we struggle with an unsteady spirit is to pray exactly that prayer of Jesus: INTO YOUR HAND I COMMEND MY SPIRIT (however our spirit may be).
You have very eloquently expressed what sacrificial love of Jesus is. The Garden scene can be a source of grace and courage for us all. Thank you.
I hope that no one is offended by my frankness but I have a serious question in terms of discernment today – I am currently assisting a young woman with discernment (I am a therapist). This young woman is a lesbian. While I am now in my 50’s, I can share that when I was in my 20’s and a junior professed, I came to the realization that I was a lesbian. I shared this with my director at the time and was SHOCKED that I was asked to leave. I was shocked because I was no less devoted to my vow of celibacy after that revelation. And now I know several sisters who are open (I basically mean to close friends) regarding their sexuality. Do you believe that the atmosphere regarding acceptance of sexuality has changed? and would you advise a young woman who is serious re:religious life but has lived an open life re: her sexuality to “come out” at the start of the process? any wise words of advice for this situation. Thank you so much!
Diane, I surely appreciate your honesty. I am sorry that it was so shocking to people. I hope that you are fine now in the life you have chosen. Being a therapist is such a special calling.
Today I believe that religious orders that I know are open to women who are lesbians.
The same vow of celibacy would apply to heterosexuals as to lesbians. It would be important that the young woman would not expect to have the kind of friendship that is genitally acted out in religious life. This applies to good men and women friends in religious life as well.
It is sad for me that our official Church is skeptical here, believing that perhaps same sex communities would be a source of temptation to the gay man or lesbian woman.
Dear Diane, Those are important questions. I suspect that within every congregation there are a wide range of opinions on the issue of lesbians and religious life. It would seem important for a person to know where the congregation stands in general on the issue, just as on other major life issues, before she decides to enter the congregation. Blessings to the young woman who is discerning a call. God speaks to everyone. Sister Maxine
If you really care about what other people think,and they are trying with all their might to dissuade you from entering religious life.How do you handle this?Being a people pleaser this is sooo hard,annd you are sooo torn because you want to respond to Gods invitation this time.How do all these other people think they know better than God what is right foryou.Whats the best way to keep the peace & still answer Gods call??
Dear Sam, What I’ve found is that with many things in life, people need to be true to themselves first. If you please yourself, you are better able to serve other needs. Blessings, Sister Mary Jane
Dear Sam, It used to be considered a very wonderful and holy call to consider entering religious life. Not so in our culture. You have a very hard task. If you are pretty sure that this is your deepest desire, keep praying for courage.
If you are in communion with God in prayer and God seems to say that this is God’s desire for you, you have to listen and respond.
Religious life has always been different than the dominant culture.
Your friends may think you are throwing your life away. Some people today in religious life and ministries are choosing downward mobility.
– I will be simple because so may people are in radical need.
– I will embrace celibate chastity because I trust the Love of God to steady me in deep friendship with God and with the Gospel way of life. In a sexualized culture like ours that makes no sense.
– I will throw my lot in with other dedicated people for a common work to bring about a better world.
It makes no sense. If God is truly calling you, you will get the clarity and courage if you ask for it and TRUST your own spirit.
Sam
I’m not a religious but I do believe that our personal God invites us down numerous paths, some small and hardly noteworthy to the common observer, some VERY BIG and life altering – no matter the invitation we will always be faced with choices that others do not embrace or agree with. I believe what is key is the choices and how we make them regardless of what they are. If they bring us peace, fulfillment, a sense of being on the right path, we will be strong enough to handle the disagreement around us. We don’t always need agreement to live in peace and acceptance. Afterall, if not religious life, sometime down the road it may be a marriage partner that those near you may try to discourage you from! Peace on your journey!
Thanks, Diane. That is a wise reminder. I like the emphasis on peace.
Sister Mary or Sister Julie, or Sister Jill or or or –
Can you think of or suggest any books or accounts of an individual’s discernment re: religious life?
Thanks
Good question, Jean. Might have to think on this and pull together a little bibliography for you and whomever else is interested.
books on discernment I know & love –
“The Long Loneliness”- Dorothy Day…although Day was not a member of a religous community, its her account of how she came to devote her life to the poor through the Catholic Worker houses she developed.
I can’t think of a specific book, but the story of Catherine McAuley, the founder of the Sisters of Mercy is also a source of inspiration
These are 2 off the top of my head. Also, a good book on discernment (though more about the process, not a personal account) is “A Sacred Voice is Calling” by John Neafsey. (I have started this and quite like it)
Although the following are not about discernment of a religious vocation, they are three that are wonderful and simple.
Discernment The Art of Choosing Well by Pierre Wolff (Liguori, 2003)
The Art of Discernment, Making good Decisions in Your World of Choices by Stefan Kiechle (Ave Maria Press 2005)
Both of these are based on Saint Ignatius — Kieche more than Wolff.
Listening to the music of the Spirit by David Lonsdale (Ave Maria 1993)
I can heartily recommend these as simple and true.
One day, when I was super absorbed in what other people thought of me, Christ told me this, “Did you come to Me for me or for friends?”
Its not really important what they think. If they love you like friends should, they will support you and love you no matter what. If they REALLY are your friends then they will not keep you from doing what will make you happy. I know it is hard. I had difficulties with this myself. Just take heart that Jesus loves you.
Thank you, discerninglife25. It is always good to hear stories that show the power of God’s spirit in regard to pleasing others too much, and not God enough.
Yet …
We will always have our tendencies when we discern. We are radically gifted but flawed. In one sense most of us are a little bent out of shape
We lean one way or the other, e.g. leading with our head, emotionally flamboyant, caring too much about reputation, “worldly things”. The nice thing is that God loves us in our bentness. Just so we are aware of these tendencies and try not to “feed” them too much.
Thanks for your response, Jill. It seems your vocation story was sort of a natural, gentle nudging of the Spirit gradually guiding you in a particular direction. That is beautiful. dee
Thanks for book suggestions, Sister Jill. Sister Julie, I would love the kind of bibliography you mentioned. Thank you for all of your hard work on this project of yours.
Coming late, but I try to always pray the divine office when I’m feeling dry, discerninglife25. It helps knowing that there are others praying the same words I am, even if it feels like I’m just going through the motions.
Aww, that was beautiful. God loves us no matter what no matter how bent up we are. It is always good to remember the great qualities of Christ and why we fell in love with Him. It is wonderful to know that God will be there at our side, even when we don’t realize it. Thank you for the post, Sister Mary. You really raised my spirits!
Jen, I do so as well. I do have some other versions of the Office. There is one by the Carmelites in Indiana, one on the work of Thomas Merton, and a new one called Seven Sacred Pauses by Macrina Wiederkehr.
Some of these versions of the Office keep the Psalms and the Prayers alive for me.
It is great to pray with the whole Church as well.
Thanks, Jen.
hi everyone – a little late in joining in – but i have read all the posts and i am struck by jean’s writing of the Passion and Christ asking God and then ultimately … if this chalice may not pass away, but I must drink it, thy will be done” …is very beautiful and something i prayed and thought about throughout the five years that i discerned entering the Dominican sisters 13 years ago. This was something very real to me…..i resisted the pull, or the “call” to religious life most of my life…. i believe God presents it to us time and time again – and when we finally get it…we pray and pray and pray ….we pray for signs….we pray for peace ….
Julie shared also that it is wise to visit different communities to feel and see how they “fit” with us. I visited many communities out West – and when i went to Adrian – i felt like i had come “home”…..it felt so right to me…everything was pointing me in that direction…..i had so many questions, so many perceived obstacles that somehow always were answered….
There is also the grace of “formation”…..the period of “putting on” the life… i remember telling myself that i didn’t want to be at age 85 regretting not checking it out….and if it didn’t work out…you had the choice. The sisters i was discerning with were so cool in telling me…”if you find that it is not right and need to leave…we will always love you!”
great conversation…thanks Julie!
aneesah
adrian dominican sisters
A book that I was asked to read pre-postulancy and a wonderful book that still sits on my shelf is Gift From The Sea by Ann Morrow Lindbergh – maybe not about religious life but certainly about discernment – a beautiful book about being alone with one’s self and pondering some of the many questions that life poses
I have been wondering about my own ” Calling ” for a while now. It seems over a year ago I was ” struck ” by the Holy Spirit which was rather sudden. I have always been spiritual but suddenly I want to be in prayer or in Church all the time . I am a LCSW so I work 40 hours a week but take off from work when I want to go on retreat , ect. Lunc is spent in prayer and now I belong to two local Parishes so I go to Mass twice on Sunday in different Churches.It seems my thoughts are always in prayer , I wonder sometimes how I concentrate on work ! Is it possible to enter Religous life late in life ? I am 52.
thanks again, dee. yes, it really was a ‘gradual nudging’… and I’m still being nudged, thank goodness!
And, if I may say a word on how its a crazy-wonderful-scary-delightful thing to be entering religious life in 2009…Sr Mary identified many of the reasons. Another tricky thing, for me is that many of my peers (ie, 30-something friends) are not nuns…and very few of my nuns (except for a few) are 30-something.
So its sometimes quite an odd space to be in, and yet…I can’t imagine being elsewhere. There is trust, and also love…a sense being loved, of loving others, getting outside of myself. I don’t know if this makes sense, but I think that’s part of the mystery of God’s call.
Sister Mary, I know there is a question in here somewhere but I’ll start by saying that I really loved your post about discerning spirits, emphasis on the plural. “Evil” and “sin” can be such inflammatory and divisive terms in this modern world and, as a returned “lapser”, I have found myself – in this process of discernment – really wrestling to find a level of comfort in using them without fear of invoking the energy that surrounded uses like “the axes of evil” or “evil empire” or the energy some of the more sensational stories of sin in the broader media. Your usage struck me as quite clear. Any sources that helped you develop that language?
Wow! It’s amazing how quickly 2 hours goes! Well we still have about 15 minutes and Sister Mary is busily typing responses to 3 people. Don’t know if we’ll have time for any more questions.
Thank you so much Aneesah, for your personal testimony. It is full of joy. A great sign of the Spirit. We IHMs are close geographically and spiritually with the Adrian Dominican. You have made a great choice. And so has God.
Thank you Sister Mary and Sister Julie ! God Bless and good night .
Sharon! That includes your question and Jean’s question. I just sent them to Sister Mary.
Sharon – Check out VISION vocation magazine on line. There is a questionnaire you can fill out that will give you a list of orders that generally fit the information you provided about yourself. I am 45
and found a list of orders to check out that would at least consider women my age. I think if you lead – in an initial contact by phone or letter or e-mail – with “hey, I am 52″, my guess is that even those that are willing to consider older women on a case-by-case basis might start a (subconscious) screening-out process in their heads. So social worker to social worker here (I’m one, too), I say tell them about where you are at spiritually first, all that good stuff, and then work backward to your age. You just might have them hooked…
Sharon,
Don’t forget, Therese of Lisieux was at the other end of the spectrum!
Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful words. Peace to all!
Jean, In an earlier response I gave the name of three modern books that have used the language I use. Most of my thinking and words are adapted from the Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius.
I resonate with you on too quickly labeling as evil some moments that we do not agree with or understand.
Sister Julie, I just wanted to thank you for holding such a wonderful discussion, and I wanted to thank Sister Mary for answering all of our questions. It has been wonderful to hear answers from real religious women and to get real answers. Again, it has been an invaluable experience for me a discerner. Thank you. God bless!
Pax Tibi,
Discerninglife25
Dear Sharon, Your religious experience is saying something very special to you. I do think you are in need of spiritual guidance to help you discern what God is saying to you, and asking of you. I hope you live in a place where there is a retreat house or other places of prayer. I’ll pray with you.
Jean, That is a great suggestion. You two may be soul mates. Blessings on the next stage of your path.
I just want to share a thought from my own active discernment process. I invite the Sisters or other participants to comment on it.
When I was actively and intensely discerning a call to religious life, back in my early twenties, I thought of the qusetion in terms of “what am I supposed to do” and “where I am supposed to be.” Discernment was, in my view at that moment, about figuring out the destination. A very wise woman in my life (actually, honestly it was my Mother) commented to me that I should not so focus on the future that I miss out on God’s grace along the way. Reflecting on what my Mother said to me, I realized that discernment is not only about the destination, i.e., the answer to the question of “what I am supposed to be,” but also about the graces of the journey. The other thing I learned along the way is that discernment is not a once in a lifetime experience but rather life is filled with many discernment moments. When we think about that reality, discerning the big questions takes on a different dimension.
Thank you for this forum, Sisters.
Peace and blessings,
Lisa
thanks for a great discussion…I really appreciate the opportunity to be part of you ponderings and wonderings as I ponder and wonder myself…
I have been reading Merton, and he says something about how we really do need one another in the spiritual journey, we do not develop in isolation.
It’s that time. I want to thank everyone for participating — whether you offered questions or comments or were actively reading and reflecting through this discussion. My deep gratitude to my dear Sister Mary whom I love and respect. Thank you, Mary, for being a part of A Nun’s Life and for encouraging us on our journey. Please know of our prayers and gratitude for you.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Lisa!
I, too, have found that its not so much about where I’m going, but the process… and all the discoveries along the way. They are not always easy, or pleasant, or welcome, but they become part of who I am.
Anyone know of a special peayer for courage?? Ifeel so good when I’m with sisters in prayer,for a meal,for a celebration,and just being.But when I get back to my “real life at present”and can’t say a word about what I want because I know it distresses people I love such as a parent,I just “go back into hiding” I want to start formal steps to entering soon. As an adult way over 21 but still concerned about how to do this without hurting people I love,should I just say nothing at first.Thanks
Hi Lisa, I agree with you too about the journey thing. And in some ways it’s not about what we are supposed to be, but who we are here and now, becoming more of ourselves, not morphing into something totally different. The seeds of God’s call to us are in us now, and have been since we first began life.
hi -
i know it is after 9PM – but i wanted to respond to Lisa….you are very right – discernment is a life-long process and so is formation and so is learning……i think we find out what we are to be and WHO we are along the way….in any life choice we need to remain open to growth – and that is not excluding religious life! it is a daily choice. I remember someone telling me once – when i asked how she knew for sure she made the right choice….she told me that she looks in the mirror every day and says, “YES!” to the life ….every day!
Sam, this is one of my favorites … and my prayer for all of us this night …
“My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you and I hope that I have that desire in all that I am doing. And I know that if I do this, you will lead me by the right road although I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death, I will not fear, for you are ever with me and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.” ~ Thomas Merton
Sam, I think it can help to build a circle of support for yourself. That can be in person or online. The important thing is that you know that you have people who believe in what you are pursuing supporting you with prayer especially while you find ways to share the news with people you love who may not yet understand the path you take.
You’re in my prayers!
Lisa
Lisa, I love what you have to say, and what a mama you do have! It has been dawning realization for me, as well, that discernment is its own reward: the more patient and quiet and prayerful I let myself become after a specific question and choice or awareness presents itself, the more I discover that all kinds of answers come to me, often answers to questions so subtle and so much “of God” that I never could have articulated them using my intellect or my emotions. I don’t know that that will make sense to anyone else but it is has been one of the real graces of this process of discernment: to some degree, it does begin to have “a life of its own” and is, thus, full of surprises and unexpected challenges. Very cool.
Yes, Jean, I know what you mean. Thank you!
Sam – Your concerns sound very familiar to me, even at 45 (which is WELL over that 21 years old boundary you mentioned. I have a whole life established – friendships! family! – that does not include “Sister Jean”. It has been hard at times to imagine how to ask people in my life to make this transition with me. I started by telling the “easy marks” in my world; the people who had made some non-traditional choices in their own lives, the people who had occasionally asked, “are you sure you are happy doing (whatever) or living (however)”, the people who may have been peripherally aware of or present for important steps along the way. The “tough cookies” I am taking on one by one and rarely because I have let myself believe I must tell this or that person at a given time. I love the prayers the sisters have offered you.
Sam, do you have a facebook? I would love to friend you, and talk to you because it seems we have similar struggles. I have this thread which now has 4 women who are discerning religious life and 1 guy discerning priesthood. If you could PM me on the vocation forum, I would be really glad. Sorry to do free advertising on this wall. Oh and if anyone is interested, please PM me. It is just wonderful to have a circle of discerners to help you everyday through struggles.
Thank you s. Julie,that is definitely going to be a favorite of mine!!! I’ll always think of you when I say it or read it!!Hopefully I’ll meet you in Monroe someday soon.Thanks
I want to thank Sister Mary and Jen, the woman who mentioned the Liturgy of the Hours during the Sunday night session on discernment. I went to the seminary bookstore here the next day and bought some great books to start learning:
Practical Guide for the Liturgy of the Hours (Shirley Sullivan, Catholic Book Publishing)
The Order of Prayer for the Liturgy… and Celebration of the Eucharist 2009 (Paulist Press)
How to Pray the Liturgy of the Hours (Pauline Books and Media, Judith Kubicki CSSF)
I just opened the Practical Guide to The Canticle of Daniel, one of the most beautiful prayers – one of the most beautiful sacred poems – I have ever heard. “All you works of the Lord, Bless the lord… Mountains and hills, Bless the Lord…You seas and rivers, Bless the Lord… All you birds of the air, Bless the lord”. Every time I hear it and join in praying it, I don’t want it to end. And then I say, I am going to find that prayer. And, Sister Mary and Jen, you lead me right to it. Thank you.
Wonderful resources, Jean. Thank you for sharing them with us too.
quick but complicated question:
how does one balance “discerning God’s will” with a willingness to accept and abide by that with plain old secular-minded assessment of human/systems/real-life dynamics? how does one sort out whether “any given mess” is God’s will or just the plain old messiness and not so uncommon mistake-ridden reality of human systems and, thus, one needs to use common sense and say, “okay, this just doesn’t make any sense here? ” How distinguish between being asked to “trust a (spiritual) process” vs being asked to suspend other and more secular assessment processes, processes which suggest that other very human dynamics are actually driving the process? How to avoid allowing a willingness to discern and accept God’s will to turn one into a passive participant? how, particulary, to challenge a process or invidivual who might misuse “God’s timeframe” or “the process” to challenge another’s impatience with what appears to plain old human stuff? summed up, how to avoid allowing a willingness to accept God’s will from becoming passivity vis-a-vis others, especially spiritual others?
Any suggestions re: books, etc?
Jean
Hi Sisters,
I have a spiritual director but recently she is thinking of stopping our meetings because of busyness. Am confused whether this is God’s Will or not… my question is under what condition normally would a spiritual director initiate the stop of guidance process? Thanks.
Hello FixeyesonJesus,
Discerning God’s will can be a simple or complex process. Depends on what route you choose or comes to you. It is hard when the other person has to discern something for themselves and it was not something that was on your calendar of things to do. But we all have to be attentive to our life and life of the other person. Sometimes it is us who is discerning, sometimes it is the other person. There are also graced moments in which you share the journey of someone who is discerning. In this case it is your spiritual director who is discerning her busyness and how it affects her. It is probably more about her needs right now and how much quality time she can give you.
It is not easy to know what God’s will is. We find it through prayer, activity, conversation with others, quiet time, life events, stuff that happens that puts us in odd situations. When we are puzzled or uncomfortable, that is a time to discern. Each person is different on what method to use for discernment.
I hope this makes sense. If not, let me know and I can explain more.
Sr. Liza
Dear Sr. Liza
Thank you very much for your quick response.
You are right I understand now that I need to respect my spiritual director’s needs at this stage of her life. This matter has put me in, as you said ‘puzzled and uncomfortable’ situation for quite some time. Thanks for your insight which relieves me a lot.
Maybe God wants me to walk independently for awhile now and rely more on the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Thanks for setting up this forum and it’s also God’s grace that I come across this just in time ! Glory to God!
Sorry to bother you again Sr. Liza but my emotion fluctuates because of this ‘loss’ … I feel sad and moody at times. I know I need to focus on Jesus and not my spiritual director but the trust we built in the past years and the love i experienced all give me a feeling that they are all fading away. How can I healthily get through this without unncessarily hurting myself ?
Dear FixeyesonJesus,
Your heart is still very tender from this change. That is to be expected. Your spiritual director cared about you and you cared about her. It was an important relationship. When we go through changes in life, sometimes it is necessary to grieve. There is an author who is no longer with us, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. She developed 5 stages of grief:
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and, acceptance. These stages can be experienced in a different orders or you can back track. But you do get through them and life begins anew. Everyone is unique in how they grieve a loss.
Relationships are gift from our God and each should be treasured and never forgotten. We never know when one will start or when one will end. Our loving God certainly put your spiritual director in your path when you needed. But now, what does this change mean? What are the gifts you carry with you from this relationship? What new life has been shaped? What are some of the gifts you will now be able to share with others? What new strengths will you carry with you now?
Story:
I had a spiritual director for 12 long years. She stood with me through thick and thin. She was with me through my initial formation years, temporary vows and right into final vows. Suddenly my father became very ill and his death was a high probability. So it was I, who had to move away and attend to my father’s needs. It was very hard. I was jumping in to a life situation that I knew would hurt. Stepping away from what was familiar was going to hurt as well…. and my spiritual director would not be there this time. When I gave her the news, we both looked at each other in silence. Nothing was said for quite a few moments. But with confidence she said “I’m not sure I like this….But I think you will do fine. Your family needs you now…. you have what it takes”.
Today we still e-mail each other from time to time. Recently I had to go back to our Provincial house for some meetings. We did get a chance to meet and catch up on each others lives. It was good. There will never be another spiritual director like her, but there will be others. So I wait and search for God’s will…. I hope you will have the “strength” to do the same. Hugs and blessings,
Sr. Liza
Thanks again Sr. Liza,
This experience let me recognize how it feels to be unsure and unclear and how this calls for faith. And, it is really God’s blessings to have you to give me some clues to ponder instead of only struggling with my fluctuating emotions.
Thank for sharing your story too.
Hi Sisters
I understand discernment is a slow and long process but how do I know if I am patiently waiting or that am in fact procastinating?