I understand discernment is a slow and long process but how do I know if I am patiently waiting or that am in fact procastinating?

This experience let me recognize how it feels to be unsure and unclear and how this calls for faith. And, it is really God’s blessings to have you to give me some clues to ponder instead of only struggling with my fluctuating emotions.

Thank for sharing your story too.

Your heart is still very tender from this change. That is to be expected. Your spiritual director cared about you and you cared about her. It was an important relationship. When we go through changes in life, sometimes it is necessary to grieve. There is an author who is no longer with us, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. She developed 5 stages of grief:
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and, acceptance. These stages can be experienced in a different orders or you can back track. But you do get through them and life begins anew. Everyone is unique in how they grieve a loss.

Relationships are gift from our God and each should be treasured and never forgotten. We never know when one will start or when one will end. Our loving God certainly put your spiritual director in your path when you needed. But now, what does this change mean? What are the gifts you carry with you from this relationship? What new life has been shaped? What are some of the gifts you will now be able to share with others? What new strengths will you carry with you now?

Story:
I had a spiritual director for 12 long years. She stood with me through thick and thin. She was with me through my initial formation years, temporary vows and right into final vows. Suddenly my father became very ill and his death was a high probability. So it was I, who had to move away and attend to my father’s needs. It was very hard. I was jumping in to a life situation that I knew would hurt. Stepping away from what was familiar was going to hurt as well…. and my spiritual director would not be there this time. When I gave her the news, we both looked at each other in silence. Nothing was said for quite a few moments. But with confidence she said “I’m not sure I like this….But I think you will do fine. Your family needs you now…. you have what it takes”.

Today we still e-mail each other from time to time. Recently I had to go back to our Provincial house for some meetings. We did get a chance to meet and catch up on each others lives. It was good. There will never be another spiritual director like her, but there will be others. So I wait and search for God’s will…. I hope you will have the “strength” to do the same. Hugs and blessings,
Sr. Liza

Thank you very much for your quick response.

You are right I understand now that I need to respect my spiritual director’s needs at this stage of her life. This matter has put me in, as you said ‘puzzled and uncomfortable’ situation for quite some time. Thanks for your insight which relieves me a lot.

Maybe God wants me to walk independently for awhile now and rely more on the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for setting up this forum and it’s also God’s grace that I come across this just in time ! Glory to God!

Discerning God’s will can be a simple or complex process. Depends on what route you choose or comes to you. It is hard when the other person has to discern something for themselves and it was not something that was on your calendar of things to do. But we all have to be attentive to our life and life of the other person. Sometimes it is us who is discerning, sometimes it is the other person. There are also graced moments in which you share the journey of someone who is discerning. In this case it is your spiritual director who is discerning her busyness and how it affects her. It is probably more about her needs right now and how much quality time she can give you.

It is not easy to know what God’s will is. We find it through prayer, activity, conversation with others, quiet time, life events, stuff that happens that puts us in odd situations. When we are puzzled or uncomfortable, that is a time to discern. Each person is different on what method to use for discernment.

I hope this makes sense. If not, let me know and I can explain more.
Sr. Liza

how does one balance “discerning God’s will” with a willingness to accept and abide by that with plain old secular-minded assessment of human/systems/real-life dynamics? how does one sort out whether “any given mess” is God’s will or just the plain old messiness and not so uncommon mistake-ridden reality of human systems and, thus, one needs to use common sense and say, “okay, this just doesn’t make any sense here? ” How distinguish between being asked to “trust a (spiritual) process” vs being asked to suspend other and more secular assessment processes, processes which suggest that other very human dynamics are actually driving the process? How to avoid allowing a willingness to discern and accept God’s will to turn one into a passive participant? how, particulary, to challenge a process or invidivual who might misuse “God’s timeframe” or “the process” to challenge another’s impatience with what appears to plain old human stuff? summed up, how to avoid allowing a willingness to accept God’s will from becoming passivity vis-a-vis others, especially spiritual others?

Any suggestions re: books, etc?
Jean

Practical Guide for the Liturgy of the Hours (Shirley Sullivan, Catholic Book Publishing)

The Order of Prayer for the Liturgy… and Celebration of the Eucharist 2009 (Paulist Press)

How to Pray the Liturgy of the Hours (Pauline Books and Media, Judith Kubicki CSSF)

I just opened the Practical Guide to The Canticle of Daniel, one of the most beautiful prayers – one of the most beautiful sacred poems – I have ever heard. “All you works of the Lord, Bless the lord… Mountains and hills, Bless the Lord…You seas and rivers, Bless the Lord… All you birds of the air, Bless the lord”. Every time I hear it and join in praying it, I don’t want it to end. And then I say, I am going to find that prayer. And, Sister Mary and Jen, you lead me right to it. Thank you.

You’re in my prayers!

Lisa

“My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you and I hope that I have that desire in all that I am doing. And I know that if I do this, you will lead me by the right road although I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death, I will not fear, for you are ever with me and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.” ~ Thomas Merton

I, too, have found that its not so much about where I’m going, but the process… and all the discoveries along the way. They are not always easy, or pleasant, or welcome, but they become part of who I am.

I have been reading Merton, and he says something about how we really do need one another in the spiritual journey, we do not develop in isolation.

When I was actively and intensely discerning a call to religious life, back in my early twenties, I thought of the qusetion in terms of “what am I supposed to do” and “where I am supposed to be.” Discernment was, in my view at that moment, about figuring out the destination. A very wise woman in my life (actually, honestly it was my Mother) commented to me that I should not so focus on the future that I miss out on God’s grace along the way. Reflecting on what my Mother said to me, I realized that discernment is not only about the destination, i.e., the answer to the question of “what I am supposed to be,” but also about the graces of the journey. The other thing I learned along the way is that discernment is not a once in a lifetime experience but rather life is filled with many discernment moments. When we think about that reality, discerning the big questions takes on a different dimension.

Thank you for this forum, Sisters.

Peace and blessings,
Lisa

I resonate with you on too quickly labeling as evil some moments that we do not agree with or understand.

And, if I may say a word on how its a crazy-wonderful-scary-delightful thing to be entering religious life in 2009…Sr Mary identified many of the reasons. Another tricky thing, for me is that many of my peers (ie, 30-something friends) are not nuns…and very few of my nuns (except for a few) are 30-something.

So its sometimes quite an odd space to be in, and yet…I can’t imagine being elsewhere. There is trust, and also love…a sense being loved, of loving others, getting outside of myself. I don’t know if this makes sense, but I think that’s part of the mystery of God’s call.

great conversation…thanks Julie!

aneesah
adrian dominican sisters

Some of these versions of the Office keep the Psalms and the Prayers alive for me.

It is great to pray with the whole Church as well.

Thanks, Jen.

Yet …

We will always have our tendencies when we discern. We are radically gifted but flawed. In one sense most of us are a little bent out of shape

We lean one way or the other, e.g. leading with our head, emotionally flamboyant, caring too much about reputation, “worldly things”. The nice thing is that God loves us in our bentness. Just so we are aware of these tendencies and try not to “feed” them too much.

Its not really important what they think. If they love you like friends should, they will support you and love you no matter what. If they REALLY are your friends then they will not keep you from doing what will make you happy. I know it is hard. I had difficulties with this myself. Just take heart that Jesus loves you.

Discernment The Art of Choosing Well by Pierre Wolff (Liguori, 2003)

The Art of Discernment, Making good Decisions in Your World of Choices by Stefan Kiechle (Ave Maria Press 2005)

Both of these are based on Saint Ignatius — Kieche more than Wolff.

Listening to the music of the Spirit by David Lonsdale (Ave Maria 1993)

I can heartily recommend these as simple and true.

I can’t think of a specific book, but the story of Catherine McAuley, the founder of the Sisters of Mercy is also a source of inspiration

These are 2 off the top of my head. Also, a good book on discernment (though more about the process, not a personal account) is “A Sacred Voice is Calling” by John Neafsey. (I have started this and quite like it)

Can you think of or suggest any books or accounts of an individual’s discernment re: religious life?

Thanks

If you are in communion with God in prayer and God seems to say that this is God’s desire for you, you have to listen and respond.

Religious life has always been different than the dominant culture.

Your friends may think you are throwing your life away. Some people today in religious life and ministries are choosing downward mobility.

– I will be simple because so may people are in radical need.

– I will embrace celibate chastity because I trust the Love of God to steady me in deep friendship with God and with the Gospel way of life. In a sexualized culture like ours that makes no sense.

– I will throw my lot in with other dedicated people for a common work to bring about a better world.

It makes no sense. If God is truly calling you, you will get the clarity and courage if you ask for it and TRUST your own spirit.

Today I believe that religious orders that I know are open to women who are lesbians.

The same vow of celibacy would apply to heterosexuals as to lesbians. It would be important that the young woman would not expect to have the kind of friendship that is genitally acted out in religious life. This applies to good men and women friends in religious life as well.

It is sad for me that our official Church is skeptical here, believing that perhaps same sex communities would be a source of temptation to the gay man or lesbian woman.

You have very eloquently expressed what sacrificial love of Jesus is. The Garden scene can be a source of grace and courage for us all. Thank you.

If someone is familiar with the Word of God in the Hebrew Scriptures or in the Christian Scriptures, one can use the Word of God with some structural help.
1) Read the Word
2) Meditate (think) about the Word
3) Pray words to God about what one has heard
4) and then just listen to God’s Word in response.

There are guidebooks for this process which is called “Lectio Divina”. It’s very ancient and very new. It contains four kind of prayer. See where you like to be in this four-part series of prayer styles.

At the least I would say every night:

What you are grateful for in the day …
What you are not grateful for in the day …
What you need help with …
And then just be still with God for 10 minutes.

Spiritual reading is a big help. Many people have found help from the works of Ron Rolheiser. You could go to Amazon.com for his books. I recommend his books for hints on where to find your own call to serious prayer.

I was (and still am) attracted to the focus on justice, the ministries, the outreach of the IHMs. So that’s where I’m coming from.

I really liked jill’s post where she talks about “dissatisfaction with injustice, violence and poverty … longing for peace”. It evokes in me another question about vocation.

I realize it is probably difficult to generalize, but what personal qualities, views and possibly even practices (daily Mass attendance, blessing others, prayer before meals, adoration, etc.) do you find most often in very young women (i.e., teenagers and those in their early 20s) who have a vocation to the religious life?

dee

It is important to respond to the call with serious intent, even if you do not act on it right away. Seek guidance. I will pray for clarity and courage for you.

Thank.

I responded more to personal inner turmoil of unknown origin that may need to be worked out with someone who is wise. The turmoil may be taking too much spiritual energy from the health of person.

A very great comment, Jill.

I believe maybe we have heightened the word “vocation” to mean outstandingly special. It may be simple.

What helps is to ask yourself each day: Where was God speaking to me today in my work and in my prayer? That is really quite faithful and beautiful.

One needs to clarify the source of turmoil in order to determine how it relates to one’s call to a particular way of life.

You can email me your questions for Sister Mary or comment below.

Discerning a vocation can take quite a while. Maybe a retreat or a period of prolonged prayer is needed.

The Scriptures show God blinding someone or rendering someone speechless. Would call that loud and clear. (Paul)

Also there is the soft and gentle voice of God who was not in the whirlwind but in the soft and gentle breeze. (Elias)

Yes I think that when we try over time to live what we honestly perceived was a call from God, we may experience struggle and turmoil. This happens in marriages as well as in the call to religious life of brothers, priests or sisters. We have to wait, to listen to struggle, and to figure out if the turmoil lasts a long time and becomes destructive. If so generous prayer and help from another may free up the person to respond anew to what might be a second call. This cannot be without serious prayer and consultation.

Thanks, Dee.

Do you believe God has a special “vocation” in mind for every single person? When God communicates vocation, why do you feel God does not always make sure an individual is able to discern it? From my experience, sometimes God speaks loudly while other times God’s voice is so faint as not to be heard. I’m talking about vocations such as religious and single life and marriage as well as a person’s career/ministry. Do or could vocations change with time?

I ask this because it seems some individuals know what they want to do with their lives at a very young age. Some say stuff like “I knew I wanted to be a sister at the age of 5″ or “I always wanted to have kids.” Others were sure of a future career in medicine or education before they even got out of grammar school. For others, these decisions takes some serious consideration. And for yet others, they never seem to be able to discern a vocation.

In some ways it appears that God has very focused ideas for the lives of some while others are left to make their own way, with little interest or intervention from the Divine. I don’t believe God loves either type more or less. But God has expectations for the one while little or no expectations of the other (Of course, we are ALL called to love, etc.).

Thanks. dee

Signs of a valid call might be:

1) You are sure of God’s goodness, and God is leading you to peace.

2) When you come close to God, you ask repeatedly, “What do you want of me? Show me, lead me.”

3) You benefit from the help of a soul friend or spiritual companion. This other person who knows you could give you feedback if your call seems congruent with your life.

4) You may really get excited and feel generous in response to a call to work for the service of people. Service is the hopeful goal of discernment. You may have a special attraction to help those on the margins of society, e.g., I want to help make the world a better place.

The question about being happy is tricky. In most life choices there is a formation or an engagement time. One takes time to test out the reality of the life one is choosing. One cannot act too quickly.

Also … As one matures one sees that all life has mountains and valleys, light and darkness.

Pax Tibi,
Discerninglife25