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Is the habit the answer to vocations recruitment?
The question about the habit being the answer to vocations recruitment comes up every now and again on the blog in various forms. It’s an interesting question that is way more complex than a simple “yes” or “no” can account for. Hilary well articulates this question in a comment on Why is a nun’s habit called a “habit”? Hilary writes:
Nuns are practically invisible nowadays, even in my very Catholic area, which is probably part of the reason why more women are not becoming nuns and even do not realize that that is an option. Perhaps if more orders wore some sort of habit – not necessarily the full, traditional habit – to distinguish them, to make them visible to the public, more young people would answer a call to vocation?
A couple different ways to look at this … one would be to look at the visibility issue by looking at priests, for example, who are clearly dressed as priests during liturgical events and often in other settings. One might say they are clearly visible yet why are U.S. seminaries not overflowing?
Another way to look at this is to consider the Internet. In this day and age, it is possible to get bounds of information about any subject (provided one has access to the Internet). One can easily, “visibly” find any number of Catholic sisters, nuns, brothers, priests, monks, friars, deacons, hermits, consecrated virgins, etc. There is more information accessible to a larger number of people than ever. Yet seminaries and houses of formation are not overflowing — of course that begs the question, do they need to be? Is quantity what we are aiming for here?
What do you think? Is the habit the answer to vocations recruitment? Are there other other ways that the issue of “visibility” could be addressed?
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I met a young nun when I was in my eary teen who never wore a habit around my family because it was no longer required and my family was protestant and yet her demanor and behavior said she was a nun, To me actons and behaviors speak louder than outer garments. She showed me and my family God’s love just by being a good friend.
The reason for wearing a habit has nothing to do with recruitment. It has to do with the fact the Church has CLEARLY asked religious to wear a definable habit. (see http://www.vatican.va/ ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS IN THE CHURCH’S TEACHING ON RELIGIOUS LIFE AS APPLIED TO INSTITUTES DEDICATED TO WORKS OF THE APOSTOLATE — “Religious should wear the religious garb of the institute, described in their proper law, as a sign of consecration and a witness of poverty (can. 669.1)”). This is only one quote… there are numerous other ones. If a community is going to be faithful to the church, they can’t pick and choose which of the elements they like. I know many communities were well-intentioned in their reforms that took them out of habit, out of community, etc. However, they are called by the church to reconsider and return to the essential elements as defined by the church.
Hi Elizabeth — thanks for the comment. It highlights the issue that there are a couple of kinds of visibility — an immediate visibility via seeing someone but also the visibility of knowing someone. How do you think this relates to attracting people to a church vocation?
Thanks, sr_mary. I appreciate your observations. It’s important to highlight the fact that sisters don’t wear the habit to recruit. Still, to stay on topic with this person’s question, how does the habit relate to visibility — immediate sight-recognition of a nun and other kinds of visibility that relate to inspiring vocations?
This is an interesting topic.
When I “think” about the topic of nuns and habits, I understand that “being” a nun embodies more than this aspect of this vocation.
However, in 2002 the parish I belong to welcomed 3 sisters from the Trinitarians of Mary based in Mexico (with one of the sisters being a graduate of the local Catholic high school).
Link to their website – http://www.trinitariansofmary.org/Home_English.html
These sisters wore their habits of a long white veil and a light blue outer garment.
While we have/had a few resident sisters for the Sisters of St Joseph – who wore the dark blue half veil with a white blouse and dark blue skirt – ie a person could tell they were Sisters—the sight of the Trinitarians evoked within me a deeper sense of –I don’t know how to even put it into words–> awareness/acknowledgement/respect/spiritualilty/solemnity.
It was quite refreshing to see these sisters walking in the city next to a busy road with these habits.
When I would see them “in the world”, I would find myself mentally pausing , reflecting and my spirit rising up from my secular/urban activities.
This redirection and uplifting of my mind/spirit was done without these Sisters uttering a single word ie it was their presence preceded(and accompanied) by the wearing of their habit.
My experience resonated throughout the church/parish and was shared by many people.
I witnessed first hand while attending various masses and church related events, that when the Trinitarians of Mary were present–there was a palpable difference in people’s demeanor -that showed in people’s actions and also evident in a deeper sense –as seen by their faces i.e. the people seemed elevated/transformed (in a positive sense).
While the charism and devotion of the sisters of The Trinitarians of Mary are at the deepest level of their affect/influence on people, their habit served as an indication and both of reminder of these qualities.
Hi Kaz, I do agree with you — I too am delighted when I sight nuns in habit. Sometimes though I’m mistaken, like when I first lived in Detroit. At first glance I thought that the veiled women I saw were nuns but then then figured out that they were Muslim women. I’ve now lived in Toronto, Washington DC, Detroit and Chicago and I have to say that dress is so diverse that as much as I love to immediately recognize nuns, even a veil and full religious habit aren’t always helpful in recognition when in a “secular” context. Still I too believe the habit can serve, as you well said, as an indication of sisters’ charism and devotion and truly influence people.
We recognize servants of God by the fruit of their works, not by their clothing.
Sr. Julie, I think you make good points about the issue of visibility.
Honestly, I think the reason why communities which wear a religious habit are attracting younger vocations is because of the idealism of the many who are entering today. I see this, as a member of a religious order and as one who interacts with other religious on a regular basis. Though being idealistic is not necessarily a bad thing, this must be tempered with reality as soon as possible or else a vocation can be lost.
I have known women and men religious who both wear and don’t wear distinctive clothing and there are exemplary examples of holiness in each “category.” However, I have noticed a trend in that the older and often un-habited religious are more in touch with the signs of the times, while the more youthful often busy themselves with the superfluous things of religious life.
The key to this debate is understanding that the playing field of the Church is big and there is room for all.
So, with regards to visibility, I do not believe this to be central to the “crisis” of vocations for a vocation is not based on what one wears but how one responds to God’s call.
I’ve read and heardmany debates for and against a formal habit. I’d like to think we could allow the diversity of gifts that the Spirit gives and allow others the freedom to make choices that fit their community and their mission. After all, when a community’s Constitutions are approved by Rome, we need to assume that Rome knows who we are and what we’re about. I also like the point about visibility on the web. Most of my contacts in our Membership (Vocation) office are on line.Women pretty well know who we are before they contact us. Leet’s just focus on being loving, serving women, no matter how we’re dressed.
My pet peeve abut the habit is that we have lost sight of it’s meaning. It was to show that, in our dedication to God, we identified with the poor we served. That’s why Mother Teresa’s nuns wear a sari, because that was the dress of the poor women in the time and place their community was founded. I wear the alternative habit of my order–simple, modest clothing in brown or beige. I am required to wear my profession cross and my profession ring. When I was on pilgrimage to Italy in my skirt and blouse, cross and ring I had no trouble being identified as a religious.
Thank you, Annie, for saying, “We recognize servants of God by the fruit of their works, not by their clothing.” Beautifully said!
I thought sisters didn’t exist anymore until I met a Carmelite DCJ. Turns out there were about a dozen elderly sisters at my parish church, they just didn’t wear the habit!
As with everything in marketing, better visibility leads to better product sales. So more visible sisters leads to more people thinking about (becoming) sisters. That’s simple. However, you are completely right to question whether more people thinking about sisters also leads to more vocations, since actually starting discernment is something a tad more radical than changing soap brands (unless one is allergic, like the undersigned
). So in the “direct” sense it might not have a great effect.
But discernment, as you also know, is a very tender process that doesn’t only involve the discerner. There are parents, parish priests, and friends involved. In my own experience, and from what I hear from discerning friends, these people are often very concerned about their loved child/parishioner/friend, and a MAJOR part of it is that they are sure the discerner is stepping onto a sinking ship (yes, priests think that, too). And that’s where clearly visible sisters most certainly do help.
And why the seminaries aren’t overflowing? Because visibility is not enough. (I have some theories, but they would be off-topic.
)
Having habited sisters around will also not be enough. But it will be a lot.
I have observed nuns in many differnt types of habits-I was born in 1959. I can’t imagine today’s sisters in the older habits I was first farmiliar with. They seem so cumbersome and impractical. I do love to see a nun in a habit-it is such an outword sign of faith. I still want to stand up straighter and smile and say “Good Morning/ Afternoon/Evening,Sister”. Anything that takes me back and makes me feel 12 or younger is welcome at this stage of the game. Anytime I see a woman in modest clothing wearing a large cross and simple wedding band I think she may be a nun. I think what makes a person a nun is inside and how she conducts herself. Wearing a veil is a very recognizable thing for me but I don’t think it should be a requirement. Diversity is one of the catholic church’s best qualities.
I can’t believe that if nuns in habits suddenly start thronging the local shopping malls (to use a little poetic exaggeration) it will lead to a huge increase in vocations.
I tend to agree with Eric and his comments about idealism. There can be a romanticism about monastic life which I suspect the mystique of the habit reinforces, to begin with at least.
I thought Hilary’s comment that you quote was interesting – surely nuns are likely to be active in parish work and therefore visible in ‘Catholic areas’ through what they do, not how they look.
One very hopeful area is the resurgence of interest in retreats and in spiritual direction (at least in the UK, I don’t know about the US). Monasteries pretty much have the track record in retreat work, and many nuns are spiritual directors. Both of these are in my opinion deeper and richer ways of being visible.
I agree with Venite; marketing is important. If people don’t know about something, it probably won’t have a chance of crossing their minds. Wearing a habit would help market religious life, but it isn’t enough.
Seeing the fully-habited nuns in my parish certainly helped plant the seed of curiosity about religious life, but it wasn’t enough. Being from a rather secular Catholic family, the lifestyle of these nuns was so foreign to me that I couldn’t picture ever being able to live it. And I didn’t like the way people attempted to change when they were around, it felt fake. It wasn’t until I started having casual pre-mass conversations with a non-habited nun that religious life became tangible for me. While it became tangible, I realized that her lifestyle looked TOO much like my own. I simply couldn’t justify taking vows to live the kind of life I already had. I’ve now found a community whose lifestyle lies somewhere in the middle. They wear a common color and have the option of wearing a modified veil.
To bring this back on topic, the habit may be good for visibility, but I don’t think it is the only answer. I think the real answer is threefold: becoming visible in a person’s everyday life, making the wide variety of religious lifestyles visible, and promoting the spirit of the community so that the people being drawn are there for the right reasons, not just the fashion sense.
Hi Julie (love your blog), and all you who have made comments. This is a great discussion!
I am inclined to think that habits should not be imposed. When nuns were ‘freed’ of their habits, there was a lot of emotional and spiritual energy that came with that. Though not all women religious chucked the robes,
, some who did found it refreshed them and allowed them to better engage their humanity and their calling as religious people in the world.
At the same time, (always a counter perspective!) I think by bringing the habits back (They don’t have to look like they came straight out of the courts of early barbarian Europe. Something more practical and contemporary would be fine.) there is a solemnity (good word, Kazimer) of intention that accompanies them.
I am a seminary student and part of a ministry team at a local church. Soon I will have a pastorate (I am Methodist with great respect for other faith traditions), and I have thought about this a lot. The idea of ‘holiness of life’ is the question that makes me think about conduct in life. Clothing is part of conduct, and there is absolutely no doubt to me that my clothing matters.
Methodists rarely wear the collar, but in doing so, there is an intentionality about it. The very person themselves has put themselves forward as someone who has not only declared for Christ, but has chosen to live that declaration with each step. This can create social barriers, true. You can feel set apart in a way that can feel obstructive to ministry. (This may not be appropriate for someone like me who is married, has children, and is certainly not set apart.) And yet, in declaring yourself, you are moving into a kind of intentional space, and a place, potentially, that challenges a deep kind of spiritual formation.
Eric would call me idealistic, and I think Eric would be right about that. I am, like many, deeply interested in reconnecting my faith to holiness, spirituality, and I am in search of mystic traditions resonant for today. Dealing with my real life as a human being is a struggle in the face of that.
As a woman, I know too well how identity can be imposed on us and used to trap us into ‘saying,’ ‘doing,’ and ‘being,’ according to the Good someone else imagines would be good for us. For this reason, I would not want any imposition. Who knows better the clothing that fits their ministry but the person whose ministry it is?
Yet for me, as I seek to live out my calling in the world, I do seek ways to bring a tangible holiness, a solemn intentionality, that will help me when encountering and engaging with the world. And that means I think about what to wear.
Of course, if there was an actual habit I had to struggle to get on in the morning, I recognize I might change my mind in a hurry (nothing like theorizing about someone else’s life!). Maybe there is some modern middle ground?
Julie, thank you!
I once met an Anglican priest here in England who told me that he always wore his dog collar when he was outdoors – even on holiday, because he never knew when a passer-by might seize the opportunity to talk to a priest. This is, I’ve no doubt, not a common practice among priests, who deserve their holidays as much as the rest of us. I’m wondering, though, whether those of you who are nuns might feel that wearing a habit in the street (not necessarily when you’re on holiday, I hasten to add) might helpfully identify you to passers-by, who wouldn’t have the opportunity to recognise you by the fruits of your works? And do those of you who wear the habit when you’re out and about (assuming that you’re not in an enclosed order) find that strangers come and speak to you sometimes?
Christopher wrote, I’m wondering, though, whether those of you who are nuns might feel that wearing a habit in the street (not necessarily when you’re on holiday, I hasten to add) might helpfully identify you to passers-by, who wouldn’t have the opportunity to recognise you by the fruits of your works?
I have thought about this and I find it very compelling. At the same time, it’s not like nuns are inaccessible, even those who are cloistered. We are in the phone book, have emails and some of us even have a variety of social media accounts. Parish and diocesan offices can easily refer people to us. Why, then, would a person be inclined to talk with us in the middle of the street more so than in any of the myriad of ways to get in touch with us? I am not asking this facetiously — I am very curious about this, especially because I know that it happens.
The argument about whether the habit is necessary is pointless — of course it helps visibility and has its advantages, but sisters (and Christians for that matter) are recognizable by their goodness and LOVE!!
That said…it certainly would help vocations if sisters were outwardly outfitted as well as they are spiritually.
People forget sisters exist when they don’t.
Of course that’s not the POINT of wearing a habit (visibility, vocations, etc.) but it isn’t a bad side effect!!!
Christopher said: And do those of you who wear the habit when you’re out and about (assuming that you’re not in an enclosed order) find that strangers come and speak to you sometimes?
Oh, yes! That reminds me of when I was serving my first jury duty many years ago. I was wearing our veil and modified garb (dress and scapular) then. While I was waiting in a giant room of 200+ people, at least five of them came up to me and said something like, “I was taught by the Dominican Sisters in New York”–and waited there for me to say something in response (What that was, I don’t know. Did they think all nuns know each other?) I smiled and said something like, “That’s nice,” or “Lucky you.”
Of course, there’s also the negative attention. While wearing my habit and veil, I was once propositioned by a young man! I gave him a polite, “No, thank you,” and hurried home. The nerve!
I think this is an interesting question. Sr Julie I understand why you addressed the (possible) connection to recruitment in your post title. I don’t have any hit that you personally think there is a meaningful link but it is VERY clear in the blogosphere that many who want to see sisters in full, “traditional” habits are making that link. there is without doubt a social construction out there which suggests that vocations would increase if all Catholic sisters wore clothing which traditionally announces “nun”.
Sister Mary, please read me carefully so that you did musinderstand my meaning: your appropriately emphatic clarification caused me to consider whether that link (when made explicitly or by implication by others) is, in fact, pure manipulation and pressure.
In other words, I question whether there are, indeed, some guerilla warfare/marketing efforts going on with that link and, in this post, Sister Julie is being very straightforward – very honest in posing the question publicly – by asking the question of the discerning world.
***********
First, I appreciate most the person who commented on poverty and
a style of dress that communicates poverty of spirit. You didn’t use that particular language (Poverty of Spirit) but that’s what I heard and what I think it is all about.
I am in discernment with an order that no longer wears a traditional habit. As someone ppointed out, Rome canonically approved that change. I first looked into the order because of my particular “pull” in sriritual life and, when I told my parish priest about it, he said “hey check out this order that has this charism and this apostolate”, which sounded to him like a good fit. It was perfect for me – and it turned out they no longer wear a “traditional habit”. i have no idea how i would have responded of they did wear a traditional or modified habit; what I know is that the charism and apostolate are very specific and distinctive and no other order has appeared even remotely a good fit for me (to the extent that I am not sure what I will do if in the end they and i decide no) and I would have continued discerning with them regardless of where they were with the habit issue.
that said, i also know this: i will most likely choose – continue, really – to wear extremely simple clothing – neutral in color, loose but feminine cut, mostly slacks because of the shoes I like to wear and I can’t stand clunkers or flat sandals with skirts – pretty much the same thing every day, every piece mixing and matching with pretty much everything else…. and, since I began discerning in earnest, a visible but simple and kind of abstract crucifix (i love jewelry and have a lot of high-end “art” pieces but have put it all away and have even begun thinking who will get each piece if I enter an order. i know some would allow me to keep a few pieces but i will not).
I am a social worker who works directly with people on the margins and I want to communicate respect for my clients through my appearance (i know you all know what I mean) while also avoiding any class distinction, anything that screams to them, to me, to any observers: “I am not the client here!”
My hair – long, barbershop cut, soon to be an entirely premature silver with a touch of pepper left (“enough for taste but no heat”, I say), no styling, no blow dry, no mousse, no bangs . just air dried and brushed. No makeup. Just me.
and that is received as countercultural and, with the addition of the Crucifix. I do occasionally get asked if I am a sister. and i have asked people why they asked. it is not the clothing per se. it is the whole countercultural picture of an early-middle-aged woman who was clearly “opted out” of the mainstream (both media/mall-driven mainstream and liberal/progressive/feminist mainstream ) and, most often, the way they saw me interacting with a stranger (as if we are not strangers to one another).
I sincerely think the issue is about being countercultural and how we define that. a lot of who are feminist and progressive define that narrowly: counter-”traditional”. but in this time, in this era, that is NOT countercultural; that is a new traditional which is intended to announce “I am not traditionally traditional”. that is no longer countercultural and it oftens looks very mainstream AND somewhat expensive AND barbered AND laundered AND upper middle class in its downscale/casual look (no one knows it came from TJ Maxx or Ross or the bargain basement of a department store or Sally Mae’s or the resale shop).
***********
again, I think the issue is looking countercultural and that can be accomplished without a traditional habit but probably precludes looking like an Eddie Bauer or JCrew or J Jill ad (which, even which purcharsed at Goodwill, looks to me like a person with money and mainstream tastes with a desire to fit in who is trying to pretend that looking like money/fitting in doesn’t matter. i have lived my life in privileged communities all along the continuum while working with disenfranchised communities and, as I move back and forth, that “i don’t care but i do” look is very common and very noticeable and not at ALL countercultural any more.
sorry so long.
jean
I am also interested in the comment from the man – a brother, i think – who spoke of idealism. this is a separate issue springing from his:
many of the very “traditional” orders – full, traditional habits – that are seeing an uptick in very young vocations – are very new. the social worker in me can’t help but notice that we do not yet know what will happen when these ***very*** young women get a little older. it occurs to me that is entirely possible that these orders may see and usher in a return to another “traditional” aspect of life for women religious: women who enter as young virgins and do some growing up in the beautiful, disciplined world of the convent and then leave when they are ready to marry or live more independent lives. i know that women leave orders all the time but if i were studying vocation trends i would be watching the exit rates at these “traditional” orders that are seeing lots of very young vocations. i, of course, wish all religious women and orders the best AND i think we are VERY early in this “trend”, so early that we should probably avoid defining it and certainly too early to making any sweeping changes based on it.
Jean
Sr Julie and Christopher – An additional question and I ask it sincerely:
why would – or how would – the warm and fuzzies we do all seem to experience when we see a nun in full traditional habit, or even conversation with a nun on the street, impact vocations?
i personally think there is a tremenous leap of logic there but i am open to being corrected.
jean
I love seeing nuns in their habits. I always hated it when they stopped and just started dressing like everyone else. I get so excited when I see a nun in Walmart. I go over and say; “Sister; may I please hug you. It is so great to see a nun who looks like a nun.” I always get a positive response from them with their hugs. I think nuns should wear habits more for the same reason I am the only woman in our Catholic church who wears a chapel mantilla veil; because Jesus asked us too. The habit doesn’t make a nun more holy just for wearing it, but it differentiates between a nun and someone who isn’t a nun. Hugs, Mary
While I am in vocation ministry, and involved in “marketing” to some extent. I hope that, as religious women, we never make our choices about the way we live our lives as a way to market religious life. I hope we will simply be true to the Gospel.
As to habits, I believe that when nuns first wore them, they didn’t really stand out as being all together different from what other women wore. Certainly they were not as colorful as some of the dresses that married and single (hopeful to be married) women wore, as they were the dress of widows. So, perhaps religious women, if they were even allowed out on the street in those days, looked very similar to widows.
Widows dress differently now, and their dress has changed over the centuries. How is it that the clothes that sisters and nuns wore became “religious” and unchangeable, when initially their costume was teh simple clothing of widows?
Our congregation’s constitution, as it is approved by the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life in the Vatican, states that we should wear “simple and appropriate attire as witness to both our vow of poverty and our religious consecration.” I don’t understand how it can be said that the Church calls us to wear something different from the clothing we are wearing, when the Church has already approved simple attire.
Plain jeans, plain white t-shirt, plain cross, plain veil, plain sneakers.
How’s that for a happy compromise?
There’s no doubt that something that looks different draws attention. It’s human nature. The first thing we notice about ANY person is the way they look, they way they appear, the way they dress. Ergo, it stands to reason that nuns seen in some sort of habit = greater exposure, greater “brand awareness,” to borrow a marketing term.
Does that necessarily mean that orders still using a traditional nun’s habit attract vocations? I think the real question to ponder is whether they attract GENUINE vocations. Having said that, the issue of genuine vocations is not one that concerns only those orders who still have the habit. In the end, only time will tell if a person really feels called to a life given to God.
This isn’t just a modern issue, by the way. Back in the Middle Ages, not everyone became a religious because they had a call. Many, many women became religious for non-vocational reasons – being a youngest daughter with poor marriage prospects, being a widow, being a young woman whose honour had been lost and had to be “put away ” somewhere… the list goes on.
I see the habit as a trigger, a symbol that can lead a person to contemplate the possibility of religious life. Not necessarily with the order who has that exact habit, but just in general. Some people are repulsed by the habit, some don’t really care one way or the other, some love it. I happen to love the old tradition full-blown habit, but I am drawn specifically to the habit of the cloistered Discalced Carmelites. I can’t see myself in any other habit. I have come to view this strong attraction to this particular habit as an indication of my vocation. I may be wrong, but so far the idea of wearing it feels right.
Anyway, just my two cents.
By the way, I think I should also say that, when I entered the convent 16 years ago, I specifically chose my congregation because they do not wear a habit. We have had two women enter this year, and hopefully another will join us in the summer. None have or have had the expectation of wearing a habit. That also applies to the other women who have joined us over the last 15 years. We’ve never been a large congregation. I’m glad God continues to call, and women continue to answer.
In response to Mary: Religious life is not a sacrament instituted by Christ. There is no indication anywhere in Scripture that Jesus called women and men to what we know now as religious life. It was started well after the evangelic era.
Actually, all Christians are called to the evangelical counsels. And the early Church, as we read about it in the Acts of the Apostles, struggled with doing so. Jesus never suggested any particular type of clothing for anyone, so it is hard to see how Jesus asks religious women to wear a “habit.”
And, Sr. Mary, I wonder why you are shouting in your comment.
Although a modified habit appeals to me, the congregations that wear them are far more conservative than I am. The congregations that do not wear habits are generally more liberal. I have also noticed a difference in how they view themselves and their relationship to their governing bodies.
Habited congregations will not admit a woman my age. Younger women are not encouraged in the non-habited communities. That means that the data is skewed. Beware of correlational data.
Women do not choose religious life anymore because they don’t have to. If you notice, there was a huge drop off of women becoming religious after the 1960′s which coincides with the cultural revolution that was taking place in our country. That means civil rights,the sexual revolution, the pill, and…women’s rights. Since then, women have made incredible progress in the world of work which brings them much more autonomy over their lives, which means more choices and a heck of a lot more freedom, especially over the use of their bodies. They are also better educated than their mothers, which means they have had more exposure to other religions, cultures, economies, etc. The world offers a lot more possibilities.
Religious life seems to be appealing to one of two groups of people. The very young who see nothing but superficial meaninglessness for them in their popular culture, or those who have gotten to middle age and are looking for more meaning in their lives. Either way what they are looking for is meaning, purpose, BELONGING and Love. Authentic, real, non-superficial Love.
Quantity or quality? What will it look like for the generation of religious entering now when the baby boomer generation needs geriatric care? What will missions be reduced to? What will happen to monasteries, catholic schools, motherhouses, when there is no one to put in them or to pay for tuition? I think there are more serious questions to be considering besides habit wearing.
There is an acronym in marketing and adult education. WIFM stands for What’s In It For Me? This generation wants that question answered.
Just want to further clarify my hitchhiking on Sister Julie’s question to Christopher.
What does it mean – what is the object and what is the outcome – when people stop Sisters on the street to talk?
Who is it that actually stops Sisters on the street to talk?
Who do we *imagine* stops Sisters on the street to talk?
Would those same people stop a Muslim woman? A Hindu? A Hare Krishna? A Mennnonite? A Quaker? An orthodox Jew?
Why? Why not?
Sister Pat, I agree with you. I can see some reasonable dialogue about what is “appropriate” but it does seem to me that there is a ton of other stuff getting wrapped up in a tight little package made out of traditional veils. I think all kinds of complexities – important complexities – are being projected on to this issue and, long before you sisters whose habits changed with V2 should be asked to respond, i think the rest of us – lay and clerical – need to get very clear and speak very clearly about what “the habit” means to us as individuals and speak in those terms first. as we all take that responsibility and respnd to your requests for clarity on specific aspects of our statements, etc., AS INDIVIDUALS (read actual data points rather than “this woman’s opinion”), it may become more possible for you all to respond more fully and the discussion to move forward.
for me it is this: clothes mean so terribly much in modern society and i think sisters can be powerful witnesses about poverty of spirit – and traditional habits may or may not be successful in communicating that depending on all kinds of factors.
i am interested in some dialogue about what is truly countercultural but i think you have to first talk about what and which cultures one seeks to counter.
I’d argue that the Church needs both nuns who wear a traditional habit and nuns who wear plain clothes. Seeing a nun in full habit may lift the hearts of active Catholics, but that same habit can be a barrier to conversation with a Catholic who’s fallen away from the Church or a non-Catholic. My pastor doesn’t wear his Roman collar when he’s walking his dog through the neighborhood. Conversations get started because of his dog–then they find out he’s pastor at the Catholic Church, and he has the perfect opportunity to invite them to come join us.
I am the vocation director for a religious community that wears a modified habit. I have received stares, questions and hugs from people. Some say they are glad to see a sister in a habit. Others are just surprised/awed to see a black nun (yes, they say that). I do think that visibility is important. More important than the question of to habit or not to habit, however, is whether parishes, families and Catholic schools present the religious life as a viable lifestyle. People tell me they want to see sisters working in their parishes, but when I visit their parishes for vocations talks, I don’t hear a prayer for vocations in the intercessions. All of us are responsible for encouraging vocations, whether we wear a habit or not.
Sr Marcia – I appreciate you comment on visibility balanced with attention to the responsibility of the rest of the Church community to
present Sisterhood as an option.
Every few days I read the website for the local archdiocese – it is HUGE – and there are frequent postings about vocation events for men. I don’t believe that, in the neary two years I have been reading the weekly events page, I have EVER seen a vocation or Come&See event for women posted. the vocations office for the archdiocese is heavily weighted toward men and almost every mention of women is paired with opportunities/resources for men while women are not paired with most of the mentions of men.
i get it that there are not “diocesan sisters” but a diocese is a representative of the Church and, as such, should not EVERY diocesan vocations office be dripping with every bit as much info and reources and support and YAHOOing for women religious as for priests and brothers? and i just don’t see it. There is a Come and See posted for a seminary on the events page as I write this and not a word about any of the several houses of formation here or near. The events that do get posted for Catholic women are for lay women.
that said, i do have what may be an unusual parish priest: he ALWAYS speaks of women when he speaks of vocations and he makes a huge and an appropriate fuss over the sister who is his pastoral assistant. probably worth noting that he himself is a religious priest, not a diocesan priest (his order commits itself to serving as parish priests in this diocese).
jean
and Nathalie, if you start an order with that habit, i am THERE!
All these comments are so interesting. It’s amazing how the habit issue always stirs up so many different emotions.
I too have that instant emotional reaction to the habit. I spent most of my childhood dreaming of becoming a nun and seeing someone in a habit brings back memories of all these things I held dear. Though I think emotional reactions should be cherished, I do think it needs to be tempered with rationality when it comes to painting a portrait of what is happening in the world.
Many people have mentioned that habits are an obvious sign of one’s dedication to Christ. This might be theoretically true, but I don’t believe this is why people like the habit so much. I think there is a feeling of security in being able to “size up” a person by looking at them; the world is chaotic and I think that to some people, seeing nuns in habits somehow makes people feel safer, like a reassurance that some things never change. I don’t think it is any coindence that people who are more conservative are more likely to want all nuns to wear habits.
It is true that habited sisters are easily recognizable and that people may go up to them and thank them for wearing the habit, or even offer hugs! That’s sweet, but you have to think of all the other people who have different associations with the habit – many of them negative – and those people are not likely to go up to a Sister, hence one would never know how they felt. There are many many many ex-Catholics who have had interactions with many mean nuns, especially as children. I know there are many wonderful nuns who did nothing but care for the children they taught or nursed, but there are also many nuns who were anything but caring or loving. In my experience these ex-Catholics have a lot of trouble dealing with their feelings toward the Church, and toward nuns in general. I think nuns should be more aware of that – of the fact that even though they themselves might be caring loving individuals, a lot of people associate nuns with being mean and distant, and a lot of it is from personal experience, unfortunately. It’s easy to blame the media, but I think that actually a lot of the “nun-bashing” in the media comes from the unresolved feelings of former Catholic school kids who are now movie producers. There’s a lot of hurt among ex- Catholics that have to do with their past encounters with nuns, and I think that is rarely acknowledged. A lot of nuns were mean and distant (sometimes worse), and I’m sure some still are. So for those people who have had bad experiences with nuns, seeing someone in a habit hardly brings up good feelings, quite the contrary. You’re just less likely to notice their presence at the supermarket, because instead of giving you a hug, they just look and walk away. This is similar to what Ingrid was saying about skewed data. If you don’ t have a representative sample of the population, you don’t have a valid result.
As Anays Nin’s once said, “we see things as we are, not as they are.”
I wasn’t going to jump in, but when I was thinking about religious life, the last thing I was thinking about was what I’d be wearing. What I was concerned with was whether the charism of the order matched what I thought I was being called to. Now it just so happens that the orders I was looking at (cloistered and semi-cloistered contemplatives in the Benedictine tradition) wear habits, but that wasn’t remotely on the forefront of my mind.
Annie M and Ingrid – I think you guys have hit upon something really important that gets missed here when we speak of nuns. this sweetness- and-light story has resonance for only SOME Catholics and SOME non-Catholics.
while i think there is at least some urban myth/fish story going on, I think, in the depth of the “mean nun” stories, facts there seem to have been a whole lot of nuns who were 1) very unhappy and/or 2) seemed to have bought wholeheartedly into the “spoil the child”/discipline/obedience/Jane Eyre’s Headmaster’s philosophy thing.
and, for me, I have to ask why so many of those women were unhappy enough in their lives that kids knew it – knew it well enough that they created a whole mythology around it and it sticks with them as adults.
i think that, mixed in with who knows what else, is one partial answer to why vocations are down.
religious life is no picnic. it is hard. if it in not freely chosen – if it does reflect a wholehearted YES to God, if it is not a joyful AND free surrender of Life’s other options for women (read: God’s other options for women) – is going to be excruciatingly difficult. God wants us to choose religious life on our free will; God never forces; God might chase and hound but never forces. And a lot of sisters in the past were “forced” – in a variety of ways and by a variety of factors and dyanmics.
As Nathalie and others have noted, it has not even been 50 years since options opened wide for women and, let’s face it, Ms Magazine still exists for a reason (all is not yet equal in the secular world).
My guess is that convents have plenty of older residents who, in their heart of hearts, would not have become sisters had they had all the options young and middle aged women have today. just the other day a family member told me about a friend of hers – a retired sister who entered her order immediately after high school and this sister was crystal clear that she would not make the choice again, even though she has loved her life as sister; it simply would not be her choice if presented with the range of choices available today.
i know that may be impolitic to say but it just plain makes sense. most of us know older secular women who would have made other life choices had they not been young adults in the decades prior to the 60s and 70s. it only follows that some sisters would say the same thing, especially because the life is hard. (and I say FIE to anyone who says it is not. it is both joyful and difficult. like most of life. and like faith).
anyway, Annie M and Ingrid, I think you are right. a whole lot of Catholics were taught and nursed by some cranky-assed sisters and there is a lot of guidance and information buried in that reality if we allow ourselves to be truthful about that.
(and i don’t blame those cranky sisters. many were forced into something against God’s will: we are to come of our free will, etc….).
I really agree with you Another Sr. Julie about losing touch about what the habit really meant. Sometimes I think that people associate the habit with the only “real” nun. I’m like many others who get a warm feeling when I see a nun in a habit. They are beautiful, but I recognize that they don’t make the sister. I can’t say that the nuns I know (most of whom don’t wear a habit) are any less of a nun. It’s their joy for life and love that shine through.
As I’m beginning the discernment process, clothing is one of the furthest things from my mind. I’m looking at charisms and missions/apostolates. It does so happen that they do not wear a habit.
I don’t think the habit is the answer to vocation recruitment. I think that kids/adults just need to be made aware that religious life is still an option and work that into the fabric of life. I know for me that religious life wasn’t even on my radar growing up even though I knew nuns. So, yes, I think that there is a problem with visibility, but the internet (blogs like this one) and even more access/openess to religious life will help.
I know why some nuns were grumpy back in the day! Here are the reasons, straight from some of our older sisters:
1. SHOES–You nearly never, ever got a new pair sized for you. You took what you could find from the”dead nun” pile of shoes and made do with what you could get.
2. HUNGER–The sisters were paid very little, and most that money had to go to the motherhouse for the elderly sisters and the young ‘uns in formation. If you were lucky (o_O?), people in the parish would throw your convent a pantry shower and give you canned fruits and vegetables. Or a farmer may give you the liver from that hog he just slaughtered. In the history of my congregation, the sisters sometimes came to supper at a table that held only a pitcher of water.
3. OVERWORK–One of our sisters had 128 students in ONE room, 4 grades together. There was no teacher’s aide to assist her. Then she had to teach CCD after school, teach private piano or organ classes, do her chores at the convent, clean the church on the weekends, and say her prayers. When my congregation began, there were no Rules for an active/comtemplative orders to model. We were expected to observe the Rule and horarium of the cloistered Poor Clares AND do the active ministries besides. Some young sisters actually died from overwork until our Rule was approved, 44 years after we began!
4. CLOTHING–Our sisters wore a woolen habit, scapular, and mantle (from Sept. 29 (St. Michael the Archangel) to late spring, probably May 18 (St. Felix of Cantalice) no matter the weather. There were also tunics worn underneath, plus medieval undergarments that did their best to hide the fact that there was a woman in there! Top that off with a hood with heavy starch around the face, a starched band and a long veil. It didn’t matter in what part of the world you lived or what work you did. You either roasted, steamed or froze in that habit.
Any one of the above would certainly make ME grumpy!
Here’s another view from a non-nun, but obviously interested enough to read most of the comments in this blog. As someone who travels frequently, I am also one of those who smile upon seeing a nun especially at the airport. In past blogs/comments many sisters have tried to communicate that nuns do “normal” and unrestricted activities. I truly do see as nuns as mavericks and progressive in their life choices, but how are “we” (the general public) to know it without seeing it in action?
A veil or habit, like a full business suit, a quaker/muslim/mennonite/amish outfit or a police uniform sticks out. It’s just nice seeing this when you aren’t looking for it. Yes, the internet greatly enables us to reach out to the religious just as 911 is available when I need the police. But that still doesn’t change the fact that I am comforted and feel safer upon seeing a uniformed police officer. Or personally joyful and proud upon seeing a sister in public in a habit.
I think it is within this context that a habit should be viewed – as a uniform that will be recognized and evoke emotion, good and bad. So I think there should be choice in whether habits are worn (everyone needs a day off), but they also certainly should be utilized in making the choice to follow that lifestyle more visible.
People are yearning for what I think the religious still represent – hope, charity, and kindness – and using the habit as a beacon in public can transform the previous conotations (from exaggerated school days, movies, halloween costumes, etc) into a modern, diverse view.
For some reason I never hear anyone suggesting that Jesuits should dress as Benedictine monks. What is it with women religious who seemingly become the focus of such battles?
On the other hand, Sr Meg Funk had some reflections on the habit issue that you may find interesting. (http://megfunk.com/entry.php?id=152) But then she’s a Benedictine and speaking in a monastic context.
Hi Sr. Julie,
I do think that Nuns should wear a habit. Something very simple and
practical, which could include a vail. Not for recrutement purposes…(I think the nun by her behaviour will speak volumes!) but rather as a way of showing the world that there is something or Someone who is worth giving your all for, and hopefully drawing people to know and love this
compassionate and loving God.
* Using the word , ‘you’, in this reply to question about wearing ‘habits’ Does not mean this order of Nuns, at all and not any other either, it is just a way of phrasing this answer to all who may feel the ‘habit’ is not important, who are nuns. *
I certainly feel that wearing the ‘habit’ is a great way for people to identify you and know you are approachable and if they should need prayer, or someone to talk with about their Christian walk that you would be available. I do Christian Mentoring, and if people did not know I was available for them to email and to pray for them and with them, to listen to them, and to give them some direction according to what the Bible says about the problem they have, they would never get the well needed help required. If I do not have answers I can send them on to someone else.
If you do not wear a ‘habit’ of some type, people will find you just “blending in” You have given your life to God, the church and his work on this Earth. Yes anyone can do this, but yet you have been trained and had more experience. This is your promise and dedication. You feel you can do it without the ‘habit” but can it be done properly when people cannot “find you?” They do not readily recognize you, and also you are a symbol of shame when dressed in the “habit” for those who are living in ‘sin” and know it.. It could make them feel guilty and they may repent and turn to God all because you wore the ” habit”
Jesus told Martha who had so many worried in life, and wanted to have Jesus let her know she should help with food and the table settings, that Mary Of Bethany her sister had ‘chosen the best part” You are Nuns are to have “Chosen to sit at Jesus feet”
I live as a nun but have been married 40 yrs my family ( are grown) but my worried for them and grand children go on, and I do have work to do and you have work also of a different type.
As a Child I was close to the Nuns in my neighborhood and wanted to become a Nun but being Protestant my mother upon telling her this at around 13 yrs old, scared me to death with her being so upset and saying things like: ” Where have I gone wrong?” I am happily married and glad I have gone this route but yet, wonder how it would have been to have been a Nun? To be ABLE to give my life only to Jesus? Things can get into my way now. I am an Oblate with the Cistercians,, and since have become Catholic, my husband also, and we do share the faith in common, but we all wonder about the ” other side” to some degree. My husband knows I spend a lot of my time reading , praying for other’s and mentoring and studying.
‘
You may look at women wearing bright colors and nice things ( well now a days they wear pants to look like men, but anyway am sure you would like to kick the black or white, but to be a nun means to not try to be who you are not, and that is just a person who is a ‘good Christian” you are to set an example to the young girls who may have great memories of how a Nun is to look, and they may very well want to be a nun one day and actually do it, because you made yourself known to them as a nun and something about that experience will stay with them forever!
Why would you not want to dress like a Nun unless you are afraid, or unless you want to dress like other people and dress with some extra style? Do not give up your humble ‘habit’, to give way to pride, and act like the rest. You are a nun, be glad and sit at Jesus feet, and do not try to just become one of the crowd. People need to know that you ARE a NUN and they can come to you for help. Yes some may know you, but think of all the people who just do not know as you are not wearing the habit.
This world is turning into the wrong direction now, and we do not need to just have our Nuns and Priests, try to act and live like all of the rest. You would be setting a great example for the young people who may decide to become Nuns, if you begin to dress in the “habits.” If not, the next generation of Nuns may start wearing bikini’s and shorts? One thing leads to another and that is whey we are n the situation we are now.
If I were a ‘Mother of a Convent ‘I would want it to become mandatory for the nuns to wear some kind of habit ,anyway.
Why become a nun if you just want to be a single woman just acting and looking like all the rest? Not allowing the public to be able to seek you out when in need?
Yes you can be caring and wonderful without the habit, but do people know you are a Nun if not in your small groups? Can they find you in this world of people in pain and come to you for prayer, and talk to you when maybe ready to commit suicide. Would it not please God if on once, this person told you, I was going to kill myself and I thought I would try one more time after I saw you coming down the street dressed in your ‘habit’ knowing you were a nun and maybe would pray for me and give me a little hope just when I needed it! Would it then be wroth it to you? It sure could happen. This is a “hurting world” But you must be “visible” to serve.
I must add one more thing, sorry but this has a little humor so needed to add it and it is ..short!…
Last Sunday we were at church and we had a new Priest. After church he greetd everyone outside on the sidewalk. I was walking a hed of my husband, and I wroe a white veil, ( Scarf tied behind my head with lace fringe I sewed) and a long skirt, blouse 3/4 length erc.. Anyway, as I came to the Priest he reached out to shake my hand, and just befor I got to say ” Hello Father, ” He said ” Hello ** Sister!**** .
I was so surprised and my husband and I chuckled , not in a bad way but by the surprise of how he thought I was NUN.. But you see so many Nuns wear street clothes now, that a Priest cannot even tell!!!!
I wore a wooden cross which I always do, and forgot that as it was close to my neck at this time ..as the chord had pulled itself back and was visible to him!
So many people are becoming Oblates etc ,as they want to take on more of a life of a Nun even when married …and many Independent Catholics Churches , are allowing it, and they wear the ‘habits…. so if the original Nuns stop wearing them this whole thing may reverse.
Another Sr Julie CSSF –
The layers would make me crazy! and cranky! and fidgety! and I would want to whap a few hands with a ruler!
Jean
I’m a little late in contributing to the conversation, but I wanted to go ahead and read all the comments first. I’ve enjoyed everyone’s comments. All that I’ll add is that there are two *wonderful* articles in the most recent edition of Review for Religious on the topic of habits: “Religious Habits Reconsidered” by: Doris Gottemoeller, RSM and “On Wearing a Habit, from My Perspective” by Patricia McCarthy, CND. http://www.reviewforreligious.org/contents/2009/68-2.htm#signs
I will begin the formal formation process with a community in August who does wear a modified habit. But in reading the articles above, I was really struck by how *both* articles (and the arguments within) struck me. Unfortunately, they’re not available online, but if you have access to a library, they’re well worth the read.
See what I mean?
Oh, in re: the remark above about black or white habits, I have seen sisters wearing blood red, bright blue, pepto-bismol pink (!) and–get this!–purple habits! We’re a regular rainbow of colors.
Well, we would be if we were to find yellow, green and orange-colored habits…
Uh, “See what I mean?” was in re: to Jean’s post.
I am a member of the Third Order Society of St Francis (what St Francis used to call the Brothers and Sisters of Penance) – we have never had a habit, save for our Profession Cross, which I wear almost all of the time. However, I have chosen to wear simple clothes that all mix and match s I can simplify my wardrobe down to bare essentials. I wear no makeup (I’m allergic anyway so that was no sacrifice!), no perfume, and a very limited palette of colours (mostly black, white, grey, and some dark blues). I work as a health and safety consultant so I have to look professional, but I have managed to do that on a shoestring and dress simply.
I have been investigating wearing some kind of head covering for worship, especially for high feasts like Easter. In fact, I actually got one of those wide fabric headbands that covers your whole head and wore it to the Easter Day 6am service – not to stand out in the crowd or anything, but to remind myself that I belong body and soul to God. I would welcome it if TSSF introduced a simple habit for worship!
This has been one fascinating thread. I certainly cannot add too much to it. I just have a few comments:
-From what I have heard, women as late as 40 or 50 years ago were still sort of chosen by their families to become nuns. I don’t know that it was always forced, but it was strongly encouraged. It’s like the role was identified for them. A few sisters I know were picked as they were they were the most religious ones in their families. Strangely enough, my husband has a cousin who (don’t know exactly how this works) dedicated her daughter to God at the altar – with the idea that she may become a nun one day. This girl is now only 14. And her mother doesn’t force a vocation in any way. I don’t even know if she mentions anything about vocations. But she’d be happy and supportive if her daughter was called. Evidentally this altar dedication thing is a very old tradition. Does anyone know anything about it?
-I’ve heard that one of the reasons folks feel it is good of a sister to wear a habit when out and about is that if a person needs help, be it an listening ear, a prayer, directions, money, whatever, he/she believes the sister, as an agent of God, would be more willing to help than the average person. I don’t know if this is always true though. But, in theory at least, a sister is supposed to be available to minister at all times (within reason I guess). Correct me if I am wrong.
-I too would be very interested in seeing what the “exit rates” were for y0ung women entering these super conservative orders these days. I have a feeling it would be high. But only time will tell.
-I remember a while back one of the posters referred to the full, traditional habit as “medieval garb.” I agree. It is. Why don’t religious orders who want habits develop more practical threads, i.e, all black/white skirts, shirts, pants, jumpers, whatever, a large crucifix, short hair, no jewelry or makeup, etc. It might not jump out at you as much as a veil and long dress, but it would be comfortable, easy to manage and would provide the visibility desired. Just an idea.
dee
-
1) I agree that if Canon Law requires religious to wear habits, they should.
2) Too often those congregations that changed to modern dress accompanied that with radical changes in behavior tending toward dissent from obedience to the Church.
3) Many of those who choose habited communities may do so to enter groups that are faithful to the Church.
4) My opinion – if a religious is going to wear a veil, it should cover all the hair. I really hate those “half veils.”
5) And – I miss the days when you could tell one congregation from another by their distinctive habits which, in some cases, were quite unique to their orders’ charism.
What an interesting discussion!
To everything there is a season – when I was very small, many sisters wore habits that were silly, uncomfortable, or in some cases, dangerous. Thank goodness that has been changed. I think that bridging the gap between religious and lay was essential, and rightly identified through Vatican II. The ability to shed the habit and to interact freely with both groups was important. But I sense a shift again in what people are needing. It seems that there is a renewed place for the readily identified consecrated woman. However, it will (thankfully, in my opinion) never be the same as it was. The sisters in secular clothes are necessary to help to keep the link between religious and lay alive and well, while the habited sisters may remind us all that we are consecrated and dedicated to do good. It seems to me that now both are needed.
My Aunt has a theory about grouchy nuns way back then. She said just imagine a class full of forty unruly teenagers and going through menopause with no understanding of it. Can you imagine hot flashes in those hot outfits that covered everything in layers? I wore a wool uniform for one year at an all girl catholic high school-it could be pretty hot and uncomfortable in late Sept., late May and the part of June we were still in school. I strongly feel an orders ‘ choice of a habit and the sister’s freedom to find the right order is so important. Modest street clothes no makeup etc. is a form of habit to me. I’d also like to say even with all they sacrificed and endured there were plenty of joyful happy nuns too. I had a couple of very nasty unbalanced lay teachers too. My worst memory of catholic grade school in the mid sixties/early seventies involves a lay teacher-not a nun.
Another Sister Julie-I was absolutely stunned when I discovered the are sister who wear purple. How did I not know this? Lovely lavenders, even some of their veils!! Why God did not lead me there will be answered in eternity. For this life I am a black/white/gray Franciscan (not brown actually some wear burgundy!). Indeed there is a rainbow out there!
hi Julie and all -
i have thoroughly enjoyed reading through all the comments on this thread! i am a Dominican sister – and i don’t wear a habit, but do wear simple clothing – and the outward signafiers of being a sister – the logo, the cross and the ring. where i am now, most everyne knows i am a sister by my actions, and by what i talk about. I was so glad to read Ingrid’s post – and many of the others along those lines. I am a firm believer that the habit does not make a good nun/sister and a good nun/sister does not necessarily wear a habit.
There are many younger women who are looking for something to grasp onto and have meaning in their life – but i believe if they are looking for ‘clothing’ to fulfill that need – or that the habit is going to transform them into that perceived notion – they most likely will run into a time where their motives will be in question and their vocation will have to reach much deeper than the outer garments.
the traditional habit was the dress of a widow and the dress of the day. many people think the habit is a wedding gown (as a spouse of Christ) which i believe is wrong! In the past, young women who were being received did wear a wedding gown, but then went and changed into the habit – after having their hair either cut or shaved. I don’t understand where people are getting the notion that the habit is and always should be the wedding gown and should be worn all the time….can anyone help me out here??
To respond to one of Jean’s earlier comments:
I think it would be great if diocesan vocation offices could do more to promote and foster women’s vocations. I feel that it would be a wonderful show of pastoral support for women, who are certainly a part of their home dioceses.
But to be fair, I have to point out that most diocesan vocation offices also don’t provide many resources to men who are discerning religious life, but are instead focused on assisting those discerning the diocesan priesthood. I believe the reasoning behind this is that religious communities—whether male of female—usually have their own vocation directors and discernment programs. And it has often been suggested that a diocesan priest may be less helpful than a religious to someone who was discerning religious life specifically.
Also, consecrated virgins are about the closest thing there is to “diocesan sisters.” But since this vocation was restored to the Church so recently, right now consecrated virgins do not yet have a very visible or well-understood role in the local Church (which is probably why this form of consecrated life isn’t better known as a viable option for women).
Sister Gayle, OSF–These sisters wore the traditional Franciscan habit with knotted cord. The color was a dark, royal purple. I hearthey only minister in India. One of our purple-loving sisters nearly ran after them in La Verna, Italy until she heard that they didn’t minister in the US!
Red Franciscans? I’ve seen blue ones, one green monk (heavily into the environment), and one denim one (He wanted to look “cool” to the street kids), but not red ones. Hmmm–now to find yellow ones and orange ones, and the rainow would be complete!
Another Sister Julie: I think it’s the Franciscan Sisters of the Eucharist who wear burgundy. They have a website. I guess it represents the Precious Blood?
I don’t think the FSE’s wear burgundy — one of them works in the vocations office in our diocese and she’s always wearing brown.
I could be wrong, though. Perhaps she’s a rebel in the community.
wow. Bring up the topic of women religious not wearing habits and the discussion grows like grass fire.
I didn’t become Catholic until I was in my 30′s. Up to then, I think the only time I ever saw a “nun” is on TV. I had no idea they STILL exist. I had no idea what they do. I discovered a whole new world when I began exploring vocations some years after becoming Catholic. So yes, no habit made women religious non-existent for me.
Clothing does not not affect the observer, it also affects the wearer. Wear play clothes and you’re ready for play. Wear dress clothes and you’re moer likely to avoid physical exertion and avoid getting sweaty. Wear formal wear and you feel elegant. Wear the habit and other’s awareness reminds you of the role of the religious as a “sign.” Wear the habit and it makes others pause and think about a lifestyle and a focus that is [potentially] much different than theirs.
While I am enamored with the habit, I don’t give it much importance. If the congregation I’m discerning with don’t wear a habit, then so be it. I think being romanced with the habit is not a good thing. But I also recognize that the habit has value in that it gives visibility; and as a uniform, it gives a sense of oneness – both a sense belonging and a sense of a larger identity (less “me” and more “us”). What I like most about the idea of the habit is that I wouldn’t have to worry about what to wear. A woman in religious habit is a far better image than a woman in t-shirt and warm-ups looking terribly frumpy (for lack of a better word at this moment).
I am neither for nor against wearing the habit. I leave it to the congregations to discern. Why is it that men’s orders don’t have this issue? Why were women’s habits so horrible? Can we now have better designs, and can we retain the option to wear the habit. And when we choose to wear the habit, can it NOT mean “wear it all the time?”
Back to visibility: does the average American person have any idea that women religious exist, and have they any idea at all what women religious do? I think it’d be interesting to survey high school students about that. (By “American” I mean USA citizens.)
I’ve just read through these posts. I wonder why we sometimes feel a need to label a right way and a wrong way? Certainly there can be both positive and negative consequences related to wearing the habit. Can we honor that differenet sisters and different congregations have different calls as to how they are called to dress? I have always known I was not called to wear a habit, but I certainly understand why some sisters do.
There is the value of a blatantly visible witness, although we recognize that the response to the habit depends mostly on the receiver and can trigger extemes in both directions. There is also the value in saying, “I have made this public witness to God and I am not so different from you!” We are all called to live in the spirit of the vows; religious women just take them publicly. We are all called to place God first in our lives; religious women do that (or strive to) in a more exclusive way. Perhaps those who are not habited remind others that we are all called to these values. I am not so different from you is what I want to say to people. If I look so different, some people can say, “While, she is special, separate, different, so that’s why she (fill inthe blank). I’m just a regular person, so I don’t have to (fill in the blank).”
All of us are called to love and serve. Discernment is figuing out how we can love best – as a single person, a religious, or a married perosn. But we are all called to love and serve.
Just yesterday I was at a conference of Catholics. The others at the table were friendly, but when I introduced myself as Sister Lorraine the immediate response was, “Oh no, now we have to behave ourselves!” It amuses me when people find out I am a sister after they have been talking a while and they wonder if they have said anything wrong. Since we are all called to consistent Christian values and behaviour, it shouldn’t cause great alarm to discover that an incognito sister in in one’s midst!
I have also found that on the odd occassion people presume that they can be quite rude and show me no respect as a person becuase I am not dressed as they think I should be. It might make these people happy to see me in a habit, but their agressvie reaction to my not wearing the habit really makes me question their Christian motivation!
On that note, let me say that I am proud to be a sister and everyone in the parish where I minister knows that I am a sister. I hope we can be charitable in all our conversations and interactions with one antoher.
I know some sisters wore deep red habits, but now I am not sure which ones. I will try to check that out…
For anyone who is interested, here are some sisters who wear purple: http://www.assumptionsisters.org
The Handmaids of the Precious Blood wear a deep red habit and white veil. Most of the sisters I know entered when they were retired or widowed. Their main purpose is to pray for priests. They have a lovely home in Jemez Canyon in New Mexico (Halfway between Santa Fe and Albuquerque).
interesting how this conversation has gone into the various colors and styles of habits of the congregations that wear them! it sort of makes me chuckle at the seeming attempt to be stylish – or different – in choosing outlandish colors!
lorraine makes an interesting and valid point about the people who want or think religious women should wear the habit – there is a group on facebook – “Nuns Should Wear Habits” This group is mostly made up of Catholics who take on the theology and the time from The Council of Trent! They make mention of the SSPX – which is a pre-Vatican thinking and dismissing Vatican2 as not being valid. most of the people who argue that ALL religious sisters/nuns should wear habits are lay people(on this group) There is one gentleman on there that i have gotten into some conversations with – and i must say – he and most of them have been quite rude – and so stuck in this old way of thinking. This is where the thought of the habit is a wedding gown and should be worn at all times comes from.
I think it is interesting and important to be aware of some of the thinking out there – while adhering to the essence of what we are being called too.
I value and take quite seriously the vows i made to God and to my Congregation – as all of us have – it is a wonderful life – filled with challenges and blessings – and i would hope that one of these challenges is not going to be that my vows are not valid, or my profession as a sister is not valid because i don’t wear a habit!!
Sr Aneesah –
I checked out the group on Facebook and then realized it would only make me crazy. I did notice that there is group advocating that priests satisfy the group’s desire to see all priests in cassocks when they are not in vestments. That does make it seem like the argument is a *little* more equal opportunity in its target. but it all makes me crazy because the degree of emotion and passion seems to exist on a continuum that is ill-fitted to the subject.
Any suggestion that the absence of a habit reflects on the quality of a sister’s or an order’s vows is deeply offensive, as offensive to me as any other form of gossip, which so often involves casting judgment on the quality others’ commitments and values, based on any number of criteria self-selected by the gossiper and her/his interpretations of that criteria.
i know many would challenge my description of this debate as “gossip” but it so often devolves into that. It starts with a statement of preference and why the individual has that preference (which is fine; we can never be wrong when we speak of ourselves and our own meanings and choices) but, all too often, the conjecture starts about why the person believes the sisters do or do not satisfy the person’s preference. Most of that conjecture is gossip in the abstract and/or in the aggregate about the lives of real people and it is nothing less than gossip in my mind. and gossip is never innocent, as my priest says. which helps me think about why the emotional quality and volume of this debate seems so inappropriate. there is some boundary being crossed (gossip ALWAYS crosses a boundary) and everyone seems uneasy about it. As they should.
jean
Dear Jean,
I entirely agree with that statement. A habit is very pretty, but the habit that is worn within the soul holds so much more beauty and worth! A habit in the wrong context can separate sister from sister and does indeed bring about gossipping. But a habit in the right context can be a witness to others of faith in God, which the spiritual habit does as well. Overall, whether a sister wears a habit or not is not my decision, and I don’t think I have a right to suggest what a sister should or shouldn’t wear.
Now back to the question: Does the habit brings vocations? Personally, I don’t believe so. I tend to believe that people are deeper than that. They have intellects and feelings, and hopefully they aren’t so superficial to make a life decision based only on the outside habit. Personally, I believe what affects the amount of vocations to an order varies on the advertisement of the order, the charism, and general apostolate of the community.
Pax Tibi,
DL25
I agree with what DL25 said, but I want to add something of my own personal opinion: do habits bring vocations? of course not…ridiculous. Do they HELP bring vocations? Yes. they help ‘visibility’ and ‘awareness’.
are they the most important? no…that would be an insult to nuns and sisters, habitted and non-habitted alike.
For anything else refer to DL25′s comment. I agree wholly.
There was a group in San Antonio, TX that we nicknamed the Rainbow Sisters. A company had donated all types of pastle material to their community. In a true sense of poverty, they had made their habits and viels out of the donated material. Very colorful in yellows, peach, green…as well as blue and purple!
Thank you for this blog. I found it when I was searching for a nuanced discussion of the movie “Doubt,” and I’ve been fascinated by the other discussions as well. I’m an Episcopalian laywoman, and had no close contact with nuns until a few years ago whenI was a mission volunteer in Brazil for six months. I attended a language school run by the Catholic church and had the privilege of meeting nuns from all over the world. Some wore veils and a sort of habit, and others dressed in simple and practical clothes. The habits worn by those in orders that required them resembled work uniforms, and so I really learned that the lives of religious were bound up in their mission and vocation.
I myself had a very simple and practical wardrobe for my travels, as I could take only a small suitcase that had to suffice for a variety of settings and climates. I put away my jewelry in a safe-deposit box and haven’t retrieved it since. Mostly I wore simple cotton skirts or slacks, and plain (or floral-print) blouses. Although our life stories were all radically different, I felt that a great deal of solidarity in mission with the religious. Something about being in “work clothes” together made it possible for us to work and play and laugh together.
My understanding is that nuns’ and monks’ habits were meant to be practical and were modeled after the everyday clothing of humble people. Of course, the working and living conditions of each order are radically different, but I don’t think the decisions should be made by those outside the order. I do very much agree with a previous poster who mentioned how very politicized women’s clothing choices are. I long to hit upon a style of dress that can be viewed as “appropriate” without attracting further comment.
I can see why some would want to wear a habit but I really think that what is on the inside of her heart is more important. I wouldn’t want to wear a habit, I don’t think, because it seems like a barrier to the laity. We are supposed to work together. I am considering 3 orders, all of which are modern and don’t wear habits.
Our society is inundated by ‘signs’, good, bad or indifferent! Given that, why would the Church and religious orders make it more difficult for people who may have vocations to seek out viable role models?
Religious life is competing with all kinds of lifestyles and options. If we want young people to feel compelled to explore a call then we need to be viable, visible signs and yes this includes habits! Habits are visible and certainly fall within the vow of poverty so my question is,”why are some religious so relucant to wear one?” Maybe they don’t want to be held accountable in public?
Recently the Pope called on priests to wear some visible sign of their vocation and clerical suits and cassocks were in short supply in Rome.
I say, “bring on the habits”!
Hi everyone!
, i thought I’d add my 2 cents.
i’m a high schooler currently looking at the possibility of a religious vocation. being a potential “vocations recruit”
first, a nun’s wearing a habit tends to be seen as a symbol of commitment to Church teaching. NOT that nuns who wear civilian clothes necessarily aren’t, but wearing a habit is like saying “yes, I care about God and my vocation enough to tell the world every time they see me that I belong to Jesus”.
also, a habit is one of the cool things about being a nun. if you’re going to live your life set apart for Christ, why not look like it? You bear witness with your appearance as well as your behavior.
have a great day everyone and God bless.
As a 56 yr. old who attended Catholic grade school, high school and Regis University, I find habits a bit creepy. They invoke an image of domination and separation, rather than service to the world. Not that I have had terrible experiences with nuns, I think I feared that ominous foreboding figure in the black, ancient habit.
When nuns integrated into the world and softened their image by wearing modest suits and pants, showed they had real hair, they seemed much more approachable.
I think a habit designed in a modern fashion might be helpful in certain settings.
What a great blog! Like an earlier commenter, I found my way here while looking for a discussion about the movie “Doubt.”
I spent 20 years wearing the “habit” of an active duty military officer. Uniforms have totemic value, conveying a tremendous amount of information to those who understand the significance of various bits of insignia. Conformity to the uniform also intills a sense of discipline, is designed for safety and mission focus, and contributes to a sense of esprit de corps.
To some people, I was more approachable in uniform: usually to express thanks for my service, to share their own experiences in the military, to ask for advice about enlisting, or to ask a technical question related to my job. Others, I know, avoided me. For example, when I was stationed in California, I went directly from work to a local grocery store that serves a primarily Mexican immigrant clientele. I clearly made them nervous and I did not go again in uniform. In that particualar context, the uniform did not serve a positive function. Out of uniform, I had many friendly encounters with the same people.
Let the clothing fit the mission.
Hi Sr. Julie,
I don’t believe ‘the habit’ is a recruitment tool. It’s a sign! The world is full of signs, good, bad and neutral.
A nun in a visible habit, who is dressed differently than laity is a sign that her values and lifestyle are different and counter culture.
The wearing of a habit is also a requirement of the Church! Many habited nuns manage to work in their apostalates in a habit without debate. I wonder why the unhabited sisters waste the time over this issue. Surely, their time would be better spent praying, meditating or working.
Wearing a habit saves money and time and it’s about living the vow of poverty!
Hey KvK – One of the most important things I have learned on this site
is that what many, if not most, non-religious refer to when we use the term “the habit” is simply one example of the religious habits worn – with Canonical approval (which, to me, means that the Vatican gave the Order specific and fully informed consent after a review by the Vatican to determine that the order’s proposed habit meets the Church’s requirements – by Roman Catholic sisters and nuns. Again and again, sisters have posted the Canonically approved “habit” of the Roman Catholic orders. Iin some cases, the Church-required-and-approved “habit” has been described (based on the Sisters knowledge of their own Orders constitutions, that document through which an Order’s habit would have been proposed to and approved by the Vatican) as constituting, say, a Benedictine Cross, a ring and dress appropriate to the ministry (my language). If it is in the Order’s Constitution, Holy Church – as Catherine of Siena refers to it – has given its blessings.
Thus, when we in the lay community criticize Sisters who wear a habit that does not fit our stereotype of “the habit”, we misrepresent Holy Church’s requirements of, agreements with and relationships with others; we risk being agents of diviseness, anger; we fail to “remember the sanctity which makes every disciple of Jesus another Christ” (Father Perrin, OP) and, implicitly, we criticize Holy Church.
For me, that reality presents a deeply powerfully and bottomless meditation: judgment of others is one of the sins that begets other sins.
I think ‘habits’ do have an impact on vocations to some extent. I am and have been looking into religious life for about three years.
Of course Charism and objectives are very important but there are many other factors to consider beyond this.
Part of my reflection on whether I wanted to be part of a specific community or congregation included looking into their customs, norms and sense of identity. This included the habit, if any, and how they externally conduct and make known their consecration to all peoples.
The groups size, general attitude, relevance, worship, formation, reverence and fidelity to the Church and Bible are also very important.
I think the issue of ‘traditional’ habit is used as a sort of excuse by all sides to justify either a move towards secular clothing or by others to hold onto a possibly dated understanding of it.
Its very obvious the church expects orders to be grouped and display some form of habit that marks them as a collective and dedicated in their vows.
Although I was mostly brought up Catholic I was not received into the church until about 8 years ago because part of my family, not all Catholics, wanted it like that.
I had experiences of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and varying branches of Christianity in that time frame of exploration. If you explore other faiths to some extent its evident external dress is very important.
Buddhist monks and nuns wear a very identifiable robe as a mark of unified objective, renunciation and simplicity. Hindus are very similar.
Muslim lay women even choose to wear varing varities of head coverings and robes, as do men.
I suppose the Salvation Army are noted for their uniform and dedication to wear it as a mark of Christs witness in and to the world. They embark on many ministries and seem to have little problem having encouraging and deep interactions with people.
Baptists and other groups are also increasingly making uses of unified dress in the form of T-shirts, tops and Logos. The clothes are secular but its obvious who the people are. They use these especially during work with the poor and youth ministry.
I think there have been stumbling blocks for me over clothes and religion for a while, especially in a Catholic context. Either you have to wear something to prove a traditional point or you wear nothing to prove a ‘cool’ and ‘modern’ point.Thats very often how its packgaged.
Some have decicided to do a bit of both to aviod cross fire and wear traditional habits during the liturgy and conferences but not at other times. I think this aviods the point.
The issue of religious symbolism and identity is growing increasingly important. I still get asked by Muslim friends why Muslim women can be so dedicated, modest, traditionally adaptable to living in the world, while not of it, while religious sisters of my own faith seem to have lost that sense of expression and identity in how they dress.
Its hard to reply to them by saying nuns do ministries and lots of garb can be difficult. Then they say, so how are they different to a secular person, a married person or a person of any faith in garb or not doing the same work and managing just fine? Is it not just an excuse to wear what they like?
Images and first impressions are important I suppose. I think Vatican II come at a time for that period and although there were many good things there were also many abuses, not just with habits either.
But we are living in an increasingly racially diverse, culturally diverse and religiously diverse global world. In this climate the sense of foundation, stability and identity is important. It forms a psychological, emotional and practical aid to rooting someone in their faith.
People see religious, priests and congregations as either helping to define identity or as blurring it. Blurring it has increasingly been seen as unhelpful and contrary to the direction the church should be moving.
This is made worse I think by many people still stuck in the mindset of the pre or post 1960s reforms which in my view have become increasingly outdated for the purpose they served for the here and now. This is often now seen as the ‘hippy’ age where religious increasingly destablised and uprooted the religious life to the point of inducing decline and eventual self destruction of many religious communities.
I think the way for forward is to stop this idea of comparison with the ‘traditional’ habit by all people. I dont see anything wrong with certain communities weraring the traditional habit if they all agree its an aid to their vocation.
I personally find uniformed dress and robes on retreats actually help me to focus, reduce distractions, pride and concern of how I look. It also seems to increase singularity of purpose. Maybe this is why more contemplative orders keep it. Robes can also be adapted to be very very simple and cool much like the flowing dresses/robes worn in many arab and african countries.
Am I saying that ALL religious should dress like this? No, but I think they should think about the idea of ‘habit’ more generally than they do and expand what a ‘habit’ could be beyond a cross and ring, which to be honest I would not notice in a packed church.
Plus if you actually look at many sisters they actually do not even have the cross or pin on display either. My grandmother used to wear this so I cant see how I could really tell the difference without asking?
I do not totally understand either whats wrong with sisters or mens order wearing secular clothes that are distinctive or adapted to just them?
Like all women in the same congregation wearing a blue skirt of the same length or style with a white tshit of jumper? Maybe this top could have a pin, cross or logo? Maybe this would serve better than the mismatch of clothing we have at the moment with some orders.
This way people would know Ohh Yes that congregations sisters wear blue skirts and white jumpers and the other sister she is talking with is from this congregation as she is wearing a brown skirt and beige jumper etc like all the sisters of that community do. A similar pattern could happen with brothers as well.
Small steps I think would make a big difference and it need not hamper ministry or make the religious look like something from the dark ages.
Pax et Bonum
In regard to nuns wearing habits:::: A habit is a holy garment and commands respect. Nuns who wear habits such as the Trinitarian Sisters and the Missionaries of Charity and the Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist are witnesses to “who they are”.
Habits are a sign of commitment to their calling.
And have you noticed, the nuns who wear full habits are the ones who are getting the most vocations???? This speaks for itself.
Hi Ann, Thanks for writing in. Many people do in fact have great respect for the habit, but some people have no idea what it means and it can be alienating to them. So it kind of depends who you are as to how you’ll respond to a Catholic sister or nun’s habit. Also I don’t think there’s been any comprehensive studying linking the habit to an increase in vocations. There are communities that wear habits that are have no vocations and conversely communities that do not wear habits that have regular vocations. So it’s kind of difficult to draw that comparison. There are many ways that sisters and nuns in habits or not in habits witness to who they are. Their life, how they live the Gospel and the mission of their congregation should always be the primary ways that they witness to who they are.
I think this debate has pretty much been exhausted…is the habit a beautiful, wonderful, significant enhancement to religious life, and a good way to increase vocations, holiness, and awareness out in the world? Sure. Definitely. But to the exclusion of more primary ways like love and holy charity? Um, no.
To refer back to the title…is it the answer? No. Can it be part of it? Well, yeah. Why not?
Lee – I am really grateful for the depth and width of your thoughts about “the habit”. I am printing it to spend some time thinking about it, as it is the most comprehensive discussion and set of questions about the issue I have encountered. In particular, at first pass, I am very interested in your comment that
“We are living in an increasingly racially diverse, culturally diverse and religiously diverse global world. In this climate the sense of foundation, stability and identity is important. It forms a psychological, emotional and practical aid to rooting someone in their faith. People see religious, priests and congregations as either helping to define identity or as blurring it. Blurring it has increasingly been seen as unhelpful and contrary to the direction the church should be moving”. This touches on something am discerning as I look at orders: without addressing the completely separate issue of whether Catholocism is “the one true faith”, I do find myself wanting to say, “let the Catholics be Catholics and the Buddhists be Buddhists”, thereby preserving the integrity and identity and strength of each faith system and, in respecting those “wholes” within the larger whole of the human world, I believe you are right that stability is reinforced. I am reminded as I write that I heard Karen Armstrong speak post-9/11 about the cycles of “fundamentalism” that arise when peoples and cultures and religions are threatened; my memory is that I concluded that she advocated the importantce of seeking to provide for all communities within the global community “a sense of foundation, stability and identity”, as you state, with a goal of reducing the natural and self-protective impulse of threatened communities to assume both defensive and offensive positions vis-a-vis others’ foundations, identities, stability”. Along those lines, it has been a concern for me as I discern what I seek from a congregation that the order have profound and significant fidelity to the distinctiveness of the Catholic faith in belief and practice, all the while interacting with genuine respect and due reverence for other faiths. (I spoke with one order that told me that daily spiritual practice and rituals are the individual sister’s to determine. I was so surprised I was quite uncharacteristically – as you all know – speechless). Your thoughts seem as if they will help me with furthering my thinking
I also will spend some time with your observations that there seem to be some logical fallacies among the common arguments for a minimalist approach to “the habit” (I don’t have strong feelings about this issue; my concernis much more how minimized or maximized the approach to daily liturgy, ritual, sacraments, spiritual readings, spiritual direction, etc.).
One of the things I loved in Sandra Scheniders’ article that Sr Julie referenced is that she acknowledges toward the end that “new life forms” within the Church require much fine-tuning and that the post VII developments in Religious Life remain much in need of that fine-tuning.
Thanks again, Lee, for sharing your questions and observations. So much food for thought. Jean
Jean, Glad you found it helpful.
I am actually interested to see how things go in the USA now there is all this hype about the Vatican doing an intense ‘visitation’ and assessment of religious sisters activities.
After years of complaints and decline in many aspects of the religious identity of catholic nuns/brothers and their communities the Vatican seems to be hinting, acccording to catholic press, that the actions of many nuns makes them ‘protestants’ acting against the faith in many areas. The key hot potatoes seem to be the all male priesthood, homosexuality, abortion & contraception and some nuns denying the need for salvation in Christ or the role of the church.
This may in reality be an offence to most protestants who are more water tight than many catholics on these issues but it seems the ‘protest’ element was the focus here.
This is being directly linked to the negative effect on lay peoples faith and morals, especially those the nuns work with and influence.
I personally feel any dissent on these issues leads people into the arms of Eastern Orthodoxy, the Baptists, Pentecostals and the alike when they theologically think the Catholic church has gone nuts with cultural and political wrangles to the exclusion of God and the Bible; but I guess many would even refuse to admit this happens.
I would think one look at the Episcopal church would be a lession enough to learn what can empty a pew fast but it does not seem to make the right heads turn and notice.
Lee and Jean — Interesting approach to this. First, Lee, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your perspective. It’s quite nuanced and gives quite a bit to ponder.
Public witness is one of the categories that Sister Sandra mentions in her piece on Ministerial Religious Life. I like your suggestion, Lee, that maybe we need to consider small steps. Or perhaps even different steps all together — Sister Maxine and I have often talked about the value of a “digital habit” — e.g., wherever I go online (tech forum, blog, news article, Facebook — I identify myself as “Sister Julie” with links to A Nun’s Life and/or my IHM website. It’s not quite the same thing as wearing uniform dress, but it does do wonders for public witness! Will think more on this.
The openness to and respect for other faiths is a related topic that I hadn’t thought of before in the context of the habit question, especially, as you mentioned, Jean, in terms of “the distinctiveness of the Catholic faith in belief and practice” together with “interacting with genuine respect and due reverence for other faiths”. It doesn’t seem like the two should be mutually exclusive. There’s definitely precedent in Church teaching, especially with Nostra Aetate, Vatican II document called Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions.
Ecumenism is also something that I take to heart and am glad to have a community in which we have Associates, co-workers, and many friends who are non-Catholic. I almost detect a sense from you, Lee, that it’s not such a good thing to be like other Christians; that the more we look or sound like other Christians, the more we do damage to our Catholic faith. Not sure if I’m reading you right here. Would appreciate some clarification.
Sister Julie – Thanks for the reference to Nostra Aetate. I need to start mixing more Church documents into my other reading. So much to think about and, Sister J, thank you for facilitating dialogue for us. Very cool and, I am sure, very time consuming and, at times, challenging for you. Thank you for doing it. Very cool. Jean
Hi Sister Julie,
I think we, as Catholics, have alot to learn from everyone. In watching and understanding how other religions and groups operate we can also grow into a deeper appreciation and respect for Catholicism and the identity and truth we have.
Indeed, for example on religious dress, lay involvement, reverence, prayer, meditation, networking for peace and so on are all things we can examine across faiths.
When you say is it a bad thing we be like other Christians? I think it depends! Does looking or sounding like other Christians damage our Catholic faith? I think it depends!
If thinking, being and acting like them undermines our faith and practice then its not a good thing at all! I do not accept after having personal experience of going round loads of denominations that it would be ideal Catholics accept or become like many of the people inside those organisations. The reasons for that will depend on the issue and there are so many.
There are good examples that Catholics can draw from other Christian traditions such as a better understanding of scripture, better efforts and challenges towards evangelisation, a greater need for a church rooted social apostolate and a greater sense of belonging and faith sharing at parish level.
However, learning and applying these things to a Catholic context does not mean we would then look, think or act exactly like the other Church traditions do by doing so.
Hopefully, other Christians would learn and look for inspiration from us as well such as our rich theological, philosophical, and spiritual traditions. The strength and application of our processes and history. The role of Saints, Mary, Religious congregations and the diverse ways of responding to the baptismal calling within the Catholic church. The central feature and role of the Mass and the Eucharistic sacrifice.
I think the mistake very often, especially around Ecumenism, is to underestimate and blur the rich beauty and diversity that all traditions have and why there are differences.
For example, some Catholics may down play the role of the Eucharistic sacrifice and Mass to accomodate those who disregard this belief, essentially isolating and ignoring the dignity of their own position for the total accomodation of other views.
There is very often a superficial idealism for unity which I think can be counterproductive and it ignores real division and disagreement among churches and Christians. Some of these are new divisions as well.
I suppose the focal questions is :How essential and important is the Catholic faith? If its so important and others are maybe in error on many aspects then why not engage on moving those people towards ‘our’ position? As Christians we are all called to daily conversion, obedience to God and to those who lead us in the continuity of our historic faith.
It always seemed to me that when the Catholic church talks about Ecumenism it is mainly talking about interacting with others to allow them to recognise the pearls and truths we hold so they appreciate and eventually find it easier to come home and be in unity with us!
We can learn from others but they essentially come back to us.
I think the wrong approach is to think we drop the docrines and beliefs that are problems that seem to be divisions on our side in the hope people find it more easy to come back to us. A sell out if you like!
We would never have unity with the Orthodox churches on the one hand and the Evangelicals on the other by adapting this pattern. I doubt they could keep any respect for us.
I think the issue here is the perspective and attitude we approach and intereact with other Christians and other faiths.
The key issue is what are we attempting to do or change and what are they attempting to do in the same understanding.
The central feature has to be religious liberty. I think the Holy Father was correct in calling for greater freedom for people to engage and understand what religion is saying to them. Thus allowing them the platform to decide or reject by engaging different perspectives and faiths.
In his calling for greater tolerance of Muslims in the west he also calls on Muslim countries to embrace and accept Christians in countries that have Muslim majorities or outlaw Christian conversion at present. Its a balance and two way coin.
The root is that people always need the freedom to accept Christ at a level which is matching to the realistic expectations of what living as a Christian demands. First people need to be real about what any acceptance, rejection or apathy will have on that persons spiritual future across faiths or the whole mission will be undermined.
Either the Catholic church is the true light house and beacon to the world leading them to santuary and Christ as God intended or its just another institution that has nothing more important to say than the next.
If it itself cannot make up its mind then people will make this analysis for it. Either its rock or its sand.
Lee – I am so glad Sr Julie asked for clarification and that you provided it in such depth.
“When you say is it a bad thing we be like other Christians? I think it depends! Does looking or sounding like other Christians damage our Catholic faith? I think it depends! If thinking, being and acting like them undermines our faith and practice then its not a good thing at all! …There are good examples that Catholics can draw from other Christian traditions such as a better understanding of scripture, better efforts and challenges towards evangelisation, a greater need for a church rooted social apostolate and a greater sense of belonging and faith sharing at parish level…However, learning and applying these things to a Catholic context does not mean we would then look, think or act exactly like the other Church traditions do by doing so”.
Wow! This is what I so clumsily reached for when I wrote that I sometimes want to say, ‘Let the Catholics be Catholics and the Buddhists be Buddhists” and, in part, what I reached for when I spoke of respect and due reverence for other faiths.
I did think further last night about this issue of ecumenism in the American Catholic Church and by American nuns, in particular. In the second half of the 20th century and in every corner of American life, we were challenged to empower minority peoples, cultures, faiths, traditions, etc., not only out of respect for diversity but, at the most essential level, to break the equation between “majority” peoples, cultures and faiths and “dominant” peoples, cultures and faith.
One of the most effective ways of breaking that equation is for those with dominance to defer, to “give voice”, to adopt, to share space – even “sacred” space, literally and figuratively – with minority peoples, cultures and faiths. In the US, with its Constitution and founding intentions —————and, especially in the second half of the 20th century, with our new relationships with Judaism, civil rights (and the very important role of Black America’s experience of Islam), the women’s movement, the changes in our international relationships with China, Vietnam and Laos (Cambodia) ———————- the dominance of American Christianity (whether Protestant in its many forms or Catholic) became part of the overall predominance of the majority.
And it strikes me that just as multiculturalism in its most extreme forms can result in a melting pot that is actaully a bland soup – every carrot bled of its characteristic color, shape and crunch so that one cannot tell carrot from carrot from parsnip – ecumenism can be carried to the same extremes. And that, at least in part, Lee, seems to be what you are getting at and it is one of the issues that concerns me.
In my shorthand, I have summed it up as “If I wanted to be a Unitarian, I’d go be a Unitarian. I value them, I respect them and it is one of the faith communities that has much to teach us from its organizational life. But I want to be Catholic”. And it seems to me that genuine respect for all of these faiths – Native American spirituality particularly comes to mind, but I strenously include the Catholic faith in this – demands that we understand that they ARE wholes with every ritual and symbol referring to another and the most extreme care must be taken when we import and export between faith traditions, lest spiritual ritual, symbol and “liturgy” become cultural commodities in failed service of spiritual multiculturalism. (I think of Native American dream catchers and wonder whether non-Natives hanging them from the rearview mirror is not equivalent to non-Catholics wearing a rosary as jewelry).
Thanks again for your thinking, Lee and for the furthering of the exchange, Sister Julie. Keep both coming. Jean
It occurs to me that
to those minority
And I want to clarify:
I believe these efforts were RIGHT ON in intention and that the founding goals of our country were significantly furthered by those in any dominant/majority community that made these efforts, and that includes Catholic nuns, priests, brothers and congregations (lay and religious) that responded to the need. It is **absolutely** not my intention to criticize ecumenism or multiculturalism in their essential nature or intention; it is my intention only to challenge the way we have sometimes gone about bringing ecumenism and multiculturalism to fruition.
Jean
I. as a woman religious who’s congregation doesn’t require a habit or veil to be worn, have heard this debate time and time again. Frankly, if vocations increased simply because of the habit, I would be a bit (more like a lot) worried. Those considering religious life should be more concerned with what God is calling them to do, not wear. We wear simple dress that reflects that of those we serve. Most people who don’t see a habit, recognize us by our symbols, but more often than not, people will recognize the “something special” that identifies us as women religious.
When I first entered the convent an acquaintance asked what the habit looked like. When I explained that there was no habit she exclaimed, ” Oh, no. I prefer that all nuns and priests were the traditional garb so that I know who I’m talking to.” My response to that was simply, “Why? We are people like you in many ways, no better or worse. So maybe you should ask yourself why you feel the need to speak or behave differently around us.