Nuns: Perceptions and Assumptions

Hi Sister, I was born pre-Vatican II, but was raised up in the Church post-Vatican II. Most of my elementary school teachers were Religious Sisters of Mercy. I remember them in full habits and then several years later in the “modern” habits. I went to public high school, but to a Catholic college, where nearly all the sisters wore “street clothes” (modest skirts, slacks, dresses etc.). At every moment, in every situation – classrooms, dormitories, restaurants, homes, playgrounds, keg parties, sporting events – everywhere, all of the sisters, regardless of their attire, had my respect. We even had an eighth grade girls sleepover at the convent! Seeing the sisters private rooms with their family photos and them in their pajamas, made them more human and their vocation even more impressive to me. I remain indebted and grateful to all of the sisters (and priests) who taught, inspired, challenged and shepherded me through my formative years. I watched them struggle with the changes in the Church and in the larger society. I admire them and you. Keep up the good work – because it is good work!!! All the best.

Sister J, The only nun that I have ever ‘known’, that is met in person and spoken with for any length of time, did not wear a habit. We met on a 5 hour train ride and spoke at length of the bussiness of Religion. Her appearance (in street clothes) did not change her status. She was a professional woman, with a serious vocation, preparing for a conference. For my part, I have always percieved nuns (habited) to be seperate, unapproachable. Our family visited a Catholic Shrine this summer, and my children who attended Catholic School for 7 years were astounded by the number of Religious there. I can honestly say that outside of my visit to the Vatican I have never seen so many habits, nor frocked priests. The kids wanted to know why the nuns dressed like that. I didn’t really know what to tell them except that “this is their uniform”. Anyhow, I suppose my point is that to me the uniform does not make the ‘job’ or the person. A surgeon is no less a doctor for not wearing ‘scrubs’. Our dear friend the priest is no less a priest for drinking, going to bars, or wearing a bathing suit at a pool party. Thus, why should it matter what you as a nun choose to wear? I think in the beginning we were all naked weren’t we?

First of all, I agree with you, Sister, about the drinking alchohol. Jesus him self drank it, and I find no problem with sisters enjoying the occasional beer or wine and champane on feast days or other fun occations. Harm springs from execess, not from the thing its self.

I disagree, however, that a nun in habit makes them ‘unaproachable’. If you see a woman in habit, you know that she is a sister, and you can ask her any questions you may have about the religous life, or why she chose it, just because you know that she will be able to provide you with awnsers. If a woman religous is sitting in the same place without a habit ( as in a dress, however modified, and a veil) you have no way of knowing she is a religous woman, and the chance to witness to Christ is lost. I am not saying all religous shouls wear a habit, but I think that the idea that wearing one puts a barrier between them and the world is laughable. Police, army personal, and firefighters dont take off their uniform, because they know that if they did, people needing help would not know to turn to them, it is the same for woman ( or men ) religous.

Out of curiousity, sister, could I have the names of the orders that are growing that do not wear a reconizable habit? I would like to take a closer look at them if they have websites and such. Thanks and God Bless

Sister Julie, I came upon your website last week, and I’ve enjoyed reading it very much. I feel a certain connection to you because we are the same age, and women who grew up in the church. I was ministered to and blessed by knowing a nun in college in Rochester, NY. She did not wear a habit. Before I met Sr. Joan (SSJ) and got involved at St. Mary’s parish in Rochester, I had considered finding a different denomination. My church in Portland, OR that I grew up with seemed boring, stuffy and totally out of touch. Sr. Joan gave the homily every other week at St. Mary’s, and she talked about issues that were relevant to me as a young, Catholic woman. I got to know some of the other sisters in the SSJ order, and they were remarkable, faithful women who ministered to others in their daily lives, whatever their job might be. I’m glad there are many different orders of nuns, because I’m sure the calling to be a nun takes a different path for each person. I’m glad, also, to know that there are those like you and Sr. Joan who are out and living among us, ministering to us in our daily lives.
Shannon S. from Seattle

I too found your blog relatively recently; I believe the choice to wear a long habit with veil is a very personal one, as is the choice to be contemplative or in an order that serves others. I think there are many pre-conciliar people who equate nuns with the long habit and veil. I think there are many people who, for whatever reason, feel habited nuns are unapproachable. I am one who considered entering a convent in high school; I did not, and eventually married and have four children. I have been praying for more religious vocations – and believe the prayers of the faithful are the reason we are beginning to see more vocations. I belong to a social group of Catholic women – the Sisters of Divine Chardonnay. In spite of the name, we are a pretty faithful, prayerful group of women. We pray the Rosary, attend Adoration, discuss our patron saints, and are planning a summer retreat. Our “Mother Superior” is an 81 year old woman we nominated simply due to her “advanced wisdom.” We have learned that many of our sisters have the name “Mary” or “Marie” somewhere in their name. We thought we might have pastel chiffon habits… but Sister Suzanne thought we might be heading over the edge. She’s probably right.

Just hopped over from Sr. Susan’s Discerning Woman blog.

When I was young (a soundly post-Vatican II young) I passionately loved the idea of nuns wearing habits — the longer and more flowing, the better. Because it was so darn romantic — nuns suddenly became inscrutable, stern, mysterious forces in their big bad uniforms. You see a nun walking down a street in a habit and boom, you think you know exactly what she’s all about — good handwriting and effortless holiness right up until the moment she dies. Kind of the same way when any young woman puts on a long white dress and a gauze veil, you think “Oh, she’s a bride, she’s in love, she’s getting married, this is the happiest day of her life.” You don’t worry about a bride’s career, about how she met her groom, about whether or not the marriage will last. In fact, you don’t worry about what the bride was doing the day before, or will be doing the day after the wedding. She’s just pure frozen brideness. That, to me, was nuns in big habits — pure frozen holy nun-ness.

Of course, no nuns I knew even wore veils. And to me that just seemed so much darn harder — here were these women with discernible personalities and talents, who clearly had bad hair days and somewhat shaky taste in clothes, who I occasionally ran into at the grocery store — and these were supposed to be our examples of holiness?

If there wasn’t all that flowing cloth surrounding them, then all you could tell about their holiness had to do with their actions. And if they were wearing the same clothes I wore. . . then that might mean that holiness wasn’t a specialized form of living that you don’t really have to struggle towards unless you’ve got the right aesthetic. That might mean that everyone in street clothes, in prosaic dailiness, even, for gosh sakes, in bars — is held to the same standards. And could possibly achieve them. I didn’t like that at all. Holiness was a lot safer and more fun to think about when it came with its own period costume, and stayed safely separate from my world of strip malls and grocery stores. I wanted nuns to get back into their outfits pronto, so I could keep the idea of god at an aesthetically pleasing distance from my life.

As for fewer habits equalling less vocations, I can remember a priest telling my father once, well, if we go to that restaurant, I’ll have to stop by my house and get my collar — I always get a free meal that way. Perhaps fewer habits equal fewer free perks for clergy, and thus a less attractive way of life? Still — I strongly suspect the system of privileges never worked quite the same for sisters.

I really enjoy this window into a world I know so little about. I am not a religious person. I guess I’m what you would call “spiritual” – I have my own personal way of connecting with God. My family was sort of Catholic – we were baptised, and went to church every now and then. This was in the 70s, and the one thing I do remember is one of the nuns at our parish. She rarely wore a habit, and was criticized for wearing skirts above the knee. Give me a break! I can’t remember her name, but I do remember that she always had a smile on her face and always had time to talk to everyone. I really appreciate the conversations here and the different views expressed – it’s nice to have more of an understanding of a world I don’t know very much about!

I felt really sad to read the email from the “ex-candidate” who felt that she was not accepted by her order to treated well because of her young age. My heart goes out to her. As a young person myself, I remember being told while discerning that an important part of the process was finding a community who could work well with someone younger and would support my maturation as a young adult and my keeping up relationships with my peers.

I joined my community when I was 22, and we have some younger and some older members in formation. This summer some are celebrating first profession and final profession. There are struggles sometimes being a younger member of the community, but I have most always felt very supported by my sisters. Nobody expects me to be perfect and everybody is patient with me. Sisters have often told me how much they appreciate my viewpoint as a young person and the sense of fun and livliness that I bring. I’ve felt valued and aided to grow far more often than judged or criticized.

I hope all young people can find that and realize that as Sr. Julie said that I surge in numbers doesn’t not always mean “growth” or superiority and that communities even with smaller numbers in vocations can be wonderfully vibrant and alive, welcoming, and supportive of new, younger vocations. I hope ex-candidate can find a place where she feels supported and can grow as well.

Sister Julie, I am only fourteen years old, but I believe that I have a vocation from God to dedicate my life to Him. When I first discerned my vocation and began searching for the order that would best allow me to serve Him in the manner that He desires, I completely disregarded any order I came across that did not wear a traditional habit. Why is that? I was certainly a modern youth, a product of my less-than-modest generation, and as such I had no experience with traditional nuns in the slightest. The only nun I knew was a very old sister, whom I will call Sister P. Sister P (CSJ) was a teacher at my Catholic grade school for many years, although I never personally was taught by her. She dressed in lay clothes, wore jewelry, and had a pampered little dog that she kept with her. Sister P did not attract me to the religious life in the slightest. This is not to say that she was very mean. In fact, she had a lovely disposition and was a favorite among most of my classmates. But try as I might, I could not think of her as a nun in anything but name alone. I had a similiar experience with priests I knew who wore lay clothes. Without the outward appearence of the simple cassock to express the dignity of the one wearing it, I could hardly muster up the respect that these men are due while they were vested in t-shirts and shorts. And then, just when my modern “Catholic” education had taken it’s toll on me and my soul was in its most pitiful state, God saw fit to rescue this miserable sinner. I was introduced to a group of Canons Regular dedicated to giving glory to God through the 2,000-year old Tradition of the Church. These men wore a traditional habit, and were instantly recognizable as holy men of God. The deep respect I felt for them began as soon as I saw them. Since I have come in contact with these men and traditional Catholicism, my soul is at the most peaceful state in which it has ever existed. Because of my renewed prayer life and the tranquility of my soul, I was able to discern rather quickly my call to God. And so, I embrace the habit that I will one day wear. I embrace the “uniform” of my future profession, the outward sign of the beautiful and happy state that nuns are called to. To clarify, I am only expressing what attracts me so much to the habit. I have read a lot of arguments for why the habit should always be worn, but I will not attempt to reproduce them. I only know what I feel is the will of God, and that, I believe, is that I enter a traditional order that has maintained the habit.

P.S. I have decided to enter the Discalced Carmelite Monastery of the Sacred Hearts in Colorado Springs, CO. Please pray for me!

God told the priests of the old testiment to wear special clothing, so you could always tell one. Why would God do that if He really didn’t care what they wore?

Great thread. I just have a few comments.

- Sister Julie asked where folks, i.e., the general public, get the idea that nuns must wear veils to be legitimate nuns. Well, one place you hear this is EWTN. They frequently bad mouth nuns who don’t wear a habit/veil and won’t even allow a habitless nun to appear on their station.

- A cute story about religious women wearing headcoverings. A Filipini sister I met (they wear short veils that look almost like bonnets) told me about a trip she made to Lancaster, PA, home of many Amish and Mennonite groups. She was walking around some tourist attraction and a visitor came up to her with a camera asking to take her picture. At first, she was puzzled. Then, when she realized what was happening, she told the woman it would be fine to take her picture but if she was looking for a photo of an bonafide Amish lady, she should look elsewhere. The sister then explained she was a Roman Catholic nun!

- I find this humorous that some folks have grabbed onto Sr. Julie’s comment about drinking beer in a bar. Maybe it’s just me, but I sort of just imagined her going out to some local pub/restaurant, with a friend, for a chat, drink and burger. I didn’t think she sitting on a barstool at some sleeze joint waiting for a pickup. All said and done, Jesus did indeed hang out with a rather shady crowd in some less than desirable places. I guess it really just depends on why you are there.

- Prefer not to say: Thought provoking post!

To respond to Lily… At that time your clothes made your status. The only way that the priests were to get any recognition, by the ruling party as well as the common person, was to dress as a Holy person. These people were inaccessible to most of the population and had incredibly strict purity laws which forbade human contact much of the time. Although the clothing, the symbol of this Life, is still ingrained in our society, there are a plethora of other ways for someone who is trying to live a Holy life to show that Calling which were not even considered at that time. Just my 2 cents… 

Dear Sister Julie, sorry I haven’t been around much lately. I just have to add my two cents to all of this. In my life time I have had no direct contact with any nuns, until I likely for me came across your blog. On rare occasions I did happen to see those I was able to identify as nuns by the habits they were wearing. On those occasions I was in awe and would never have dared to approach someone I saw as being so holy. Ok, that may have been my own misconception but those were the feelings I had and still have today. Be it right or wrong, I see from the comments here this is a feeling shared by others. You can put me in a brain surgeons garb and it doesn’t mean I will know any more about brain surgery. But take the surgeon out of his outfit and he is still a surgeon. I have gained and learned so much from you both through your ministry on this blog and in our emails. You have been a blessing in my life and in the lives of many others. For all I know when you write these inspirational messages that have helped me so much, you could be sitting at your computer wearing raggedy old jeans, a floppy T shirt and a baseball cap on backwards. I don’t care what you are wearing, I care about the wonderful work you are doing, the blessings you are giving so many. Now as for you going for a beer every once in a while, you go girl. Is wine all that much dis-similar to beer. I can think of one pretty important “Man” that sipped wine on occasion. Now for the seedy bars, would that not be the exact sort of place Jesus might head for. In that, while I am certainly not trying to say all that are within a bar are sinners, but you may find a few there. Sister, you are an inspiration to all. You are admired and loved by many just as you are. Bless you.

My aunt was a non-habit-wearing nun, and sometime in my teens it suddenly occurred to my goth-chic black-eyelinered, Doc Martens-craving self, that her willingness to wear straight, knee-length polyester skirts, orange-colored support hose and those hideous blouses from Sears wasn’t just a fashion disaster — it was also a humbling admission of solidarity with the real poor alive today, who ride buses and shop Big Lots, and disappear into the background with their unremarkably tacky clothes.

That said, I checked out the Discalced Carmelites whom Marie Therese hopes to join, and I have to admit that there is probably a unique form of humility that one learns from having to scrub the floor and wash dishes in full robes.

I want to answer Stephen first. Stephen, you said “A nun in a flower dress wearing earrings could be my Aunt Flo…. she does not get the respect due a nun/sister from me” Stephen, all people should get that respect from you. I assume you are a Christian, though perhaps you are a secular internet surfer. But working on my assumption, do you think Jesus does not want you to respect all people? Shouldn’t you respect all human beings, made in the image of God? Shouldn’t you love your neighbor? If you feel a certain amount of respect for habitted nuns, I challenge you to apply that respect to all that you meet, whether they be the homeless man in rags on the corner, or the white haired lady in a mumu in the grocery store.

Now, admiration is different. I have a strong admiration for those who are able and called to apply their lives to such admirable vocations as being a nun or monk or priest or deacon… etc. The admiration you feel for a nun might be greater than for your Aunt Flo. But even in admiration, I hope and believe that nuns are merely following our Lord Jesus Christ’s will for their life, as members of his most holy Body. And thus, if his will is for you to be a lay RN and for me to be a wife, that is truly no less admirable… Except that in our increasingly secular society being a nun is far less supported and therefore the woman who becomes one is flaunting worldly social custom. However, in the days of the average household having less than two children that we live in, a Catholic mother who has ten children and does not pursue a career outside the home probably recieves as much criticism from the secular world… I hope my words are not too harsh, Stephen, but I would like to challenge your way of thinking of your fellow human beings.

This next comment is to everyone. I am actually not Catholic, though many of my close friends are. I am Anglican (and therefore being a nun is an option for me… though I am engaged so not anymore). I am 22, and a senior in college. My roommate, a 19 year old Catholic sophomore, just realized (95% certain) that she is going ot be a nun. She is going ot complete her education, and then she will have student loans to work off before entering a convent, but she just went on a vocational retreat and has decided. God has been calling her for a few years. I also have another good Catholic friend who has been discerning for years. She is also not sure (she is 22) but she has been lead towards that direction for more years than my roommate and personally I think she is more likely to become a nun than to marry, but I could certainly be wrong. I just wanted to tell you all about them just to say there are more young people out there who are joining the ranks of sisters. In the denominations that have nuns, I think more are being called from our generation than from last generation.

My mother and father are both ex-Catholic. They lived in a highly Catholic area, and my mother specifically found it empty. Do not be up in arms– I do not find it so today. From the stories my parents, especially my mother have told me, and from meeting and being close friends with many Catholics of my own generation, I think that Vatican II was a very good thing. Vatican II happened when my mom was a small child, so even though she grew up post- Vatican II, the adults around her had not. They were adjusting, and not really knowing how. But the girls (and guys) of my generation who grew up Catholic have grown up in a much stronger way. I remember asking my mom several years ago about the differences between the Catholic and Protestant Bible, assuming she’d remember from her youth. She gave a rueful laugh and said “I don’t know– I wasn’t encouraged to read the Bible when I was a Catholic”. In contrast, my friends have been taught the Bible very well growing up, and the Catholic campus ministry holds a Bible study every Sunday night (which I’ve attended a few times).

I guess this part is mainly replying to Maryann, who said that the role of nuns is a moot point in the American church. But I really to predict a resurgence of nuns… not because I think my generation is more religious, necessarily, and not just because of Vatican II. But because my generation is the post- 9/11, violent school shooting, enduring a long war without trusting the government, terrorist fearing generation. Personally, I lost someone to a school shooting, and my fiance was captured in the Middle East. We’re also the escape to the tv, movies, video games, anything to distract us from life generation. We are stressed, anxiety ridden, frenzied to never stop moving (mentally, though not always physically), to never sit in silence because then we’d have to think…
And I think that those in my generation who are blessed enough to let Jesus find them embrace him strongly. And as we let him reveal his will for our life, we will find that it has always been his will for some to be single.

Yes, I want to re-iterate that I do not think that my generation is more religious– in fact it is increasingly secular and many of my peers and even some of my family members are very, very antagonistic to God. Many revere the false teaching that religion is the worst thing to have ever happened to humanity. But in this dark and uncertain time that I truly believe is only getting worse, those who find Jesus’s love are becoming more passionate and fervant in their christianity than the last generation.

And as far as growth goes, while I do believe that more young women will join from my generation than from the previous generation (X) I do not think that there will probably be as many as there was maybe 70 years ago. But as I said, those who are finding him in my generation are finding him abundantly. So I do believe that, as long as they can cling to the holy vine, the sisters that join your convents from my generation will bear lots of fruit. After all, in response to the vocation director who wouldn’t send seeking women to the SSJ of St. Paul… new sisters are simply more branches on that section of the vine. It is their lives that produce fruit, not their numbers.