IGF043 In Good Faith with Sister Richelle Friedman, Director of Public Policy at the Coalition on Human Needs

Sister Maxine  
This is In Good Faith, a conversation about the experience of living faith in everyday life. I'm Sister Maxine, and my guest is Sister Richelle Friedman, Director of Public Policy at the Coalition on Human Needs, an alliance of national organizations that promotes public policies which address the needs of low-income people and other vulnerable groups. The coalition's members include civil rights, religious, labor, and professional organizations, service providers, and others concerned with the well-being of children, women, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Sister Richelle is a member of the Sisters of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in Dubuque, Iowa. She joins me today from Washington, DC, where the Coalition on Human Needs is based. Welcome, Richelle. Thank you so much for being here today.

Sister Richelle   
Thank you for having me.

Sister Maxine  
It's always a treat to talk with somebody from my home state, Iowa, where you were born and raised as well. And when you were growing up, or maybe later on, as a young adult, were there any particular people or experiences that shaped your understanding about poverty?

Sister Richelle   
There were two experiences that I remember vividly that brought the reality of poverty into sharp focus. The first was one evening, when I was volunteering at a Catholic Worker house, I noticed a woman sitting on a couch staring at the newspaper and looking rather dejected. So I asked her what was happening. And she was looking at the Help Wanted section and commented that there was a job she would really like to apply for, but couldn't because she didn't have the money for the bus fare to get to the place to apply. She also shared that she didn't have an outfit that she thought would be good enough to wear for a job interview. So I remember thinking, "This person doesn't even have 75 cents for a bus fare, nor clothes good enough to wear." The second experience was cold, rainy Saturday morning, at a distribution site, where the bakery that supplied bread to nearby grocery stores would bring bread whose shelf life had expired, and give it to families. People started lining up, I remember, outside an hour ahead of time, waiting for the bread to arrive. They would receive perhaps two loaves of bread, if they were lucky, a package of sweet rolls. Some stayed around in the cold rain, hoping that after everyone got bread, there might be some left over and they could get another loaf. I often think back to that Saturday morning, when I see pictures now of long lines of cars waiting to get food boxes. Many families for the first time don't have enough to eat.

Sister Maxine  
As a result of COVID, we're seeing that so much more.

Sister Richelle   
That's right.

Sister Maxine  
With those vivid experiences, as you've grown in your understanding, and certainly now, in your role with the Coalition on Human Needs. How has your understanding of poverty evolved? How would you describe what poverty is now?

Sister Richelle   
When I think of poverty now, I would define it as not having enough income to afford the necessities for a minimal standard of living. And I think there's universal understanding that those needs include food, water, clothing, and shelter, and also education, health care and sanitation. And the official poverty measure in our country is calculated by the Census Bureau. And the formula--it's set back in the early 60s--was at three times the value of an economic food plan determined by the Department of Agriculture.

Sister Maxine  
So that's the basics of what somebody would spend for food.

Sister Richelle   
Exactly. And that probably made sense in the 60s, but not today. Because we know that the growth in cost, for example of housing and healthcare, have vastly outstripped the growth for food.

Sister Maxine  
So that measure of poverty has not really kept pace with the times.

Sister Richelle   
That's exactly right. One of the big expenses families have today, for example, is childcare, because more women with school aged children work outside of their home, which is a big class for many families today, but wasn't so much a factor in the 60s.

Sister Maxine  
Those social changes make a difference as well. More women in the workforce.

Sister Richelle   
Exactly, exactly. In terms of how we, in our country today, look at poverty, the Census Bureau adjusts the poverty line every year. And so this year, it says that the poverty line for a family of three is almost $22,000. And for a family of four is about $26,500. And I think we know in most cases, that's simply not sufficient for the family to meet their needs.

Sister Maxine  
That is a startling number, to think of a family of four living on that amount of money. So according to those measures, how many people are considered poor here in the United States?

Sister Richelle   
Prior to COVID, there were about 34 million people that were considered to be living in poverty. 11 million of those were children. And just last year, between July and November of last year, seven and a half, or nearly 8 million more people became poor, simply because of COVID and all of its ramifications.

Sister Maxine  
So even outside of, let's say, we've all seen the devastation of COVID. Even before that, that seems like such a high number of people who are poor in the United States, given that we're the richest economy in the world.

Sister Richelle   
That's exactly right. I think it was, like 11% of all people, and 14% of children, who were poor in 2019. And by comparison, as you suggest, there's an entity called the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the OECD, and it's an association of 37 of the wealthiest countries in Europe, North America and the Pacific, among them countries, you know, Denmark, New Zealand, Spain, Canada, France, Australia, the United States. The United States is consistently ranked among those countries as having one of the highest overall poverty rates and child poverty rates.

Sister Maxine  
What are some of the reasons that we're seeing these consistently high rates of poverty here in the United States?

Sister Richelle   
There are many reasons, I think, why so many people have an income so low that they're living in poverty. Three of them come to mind that I'll just touch on briefly. One of them is inequality. Secondly, low paying jobs. And third, a weak social safety net. So first, the growth in our country isn't being experienced equally by everyone. Income inequality has increased dramatically since the 70s. If we look at for example, 2019, the bottom income quintile, the lowest 20% of US earners, received about 3% of the total household income, while the richest 20% received more than half. And of course, income is also directly determinant of one's ability to accumulate wealth. So for the latest year, we have a wealth figure, 2016, 1% of the wealthiest in our country owned 40% of the wealth, while the bottom 90% owned 23% of the wealth.

Sister Maxine  
So we see a huge gap there.

Sister Richelle   
That's right. And then secondly, if we look at job growth in our country, it has been centered in the service sector. So those working in hospitality, restaurants, caretaker jobs, for example, are often paid lower wages, with fewer employer provided benefits and less opportunities for promotion. Those jobs also often have unpredictable schedules, unstable employment, and inadequate or non-existent benefits. Many low-wage jobs provide no paid sick or vacation days. And I often think of parents that have children in school, when they had children in school, that couldn't even take a day off to go to a program their child was in. And then, of course, the federal minimum wage hasn't increased since 2009. So if we think about it, and we think of the federal minimum wage, which is $7.25, if a person works 40 hours a week for 52 weeks at $7.25, that's $15,080. So if a person is a single parent, raising two children, that family's income falls short of the $22,000 poverty line for a family of three by about $7,000.

Sister Maxine  
That's one of those issues that has been in the national conversation, hotly debated at times, is about raising the federal minimum wage. Raising it to $15 an hour, I think, is where the conversation is now. As you describe what it's like to try to live on $7.25 an hour for family, would that difference to even $15 an hour--do you think that would make a significant difference?

Sister Richelle   
The really short answer is yes. Because the last time the federal minimum wage was raised in 2009, and it hasn't been raised for 12 years, we look at the buying power in relationship to today. And the minimum wage today has lost 17% of its buying power. So raising the minimum wage, over time, would boost paychecks and reduce poverty. Some estimate that the minimum wage increase to $15, phased in by 2020, would increase paychecks for roughly 27 million workers and lift 1.3 million out of poverty. We also know that half of minimum wage workers are those essential workers, as we define them in this COVID time, and we know how important they are.

Sister Maxine  
You mentioned earlier, in the service sector, how the benefits are often very inadequate. And I think we have seen during COVID an especially dramatic effect on the service sector workers, which includes many of those frontline workers, the essential workers.

Sister Richelle   
That's absolutely right. And regarding the minimum wage, we know that some states have minimum wages above the federal minimum wage at $7.25. But, unbelievably, there are states like Wyoming and Georgia, for example, have minimum wages that are at only $5.15 per hour. So there's a need to raise the minimum wage. To do so over time, will have a tremendous impact on poverty in our country.

Sister Maxine  
It occurs to me that we sometimes hear comments, "Well, how can things be so bad? Look at how great the stock market is doing? Can things be so bad in our country?"

Sister Richelle   
I too often hear that. And I think some would respond--and I would agree with this response--very simply. The stock market doesn't reflect where things are on Main Street. We know, of course, that a lot of people have 401Ks and so forth in the stock market. But many people do not. And for lower income people, the stock market and where it is, is pretty irrelevant, because they barely have enough oftentimes to meet their basic needs. They don't have enough to put money away into stocks. And they are probably in a job where they don't have a 401K.

Sister Maxine  
We've touched on some of the problems related to poverty, the inequalities, the low paying jobs, a weak social safety net. Can you talk about the work that you're doing now on legislation, at the Coalition on Human Needs, that would address these things?

Sister Richelle   
Yes. My work for, I would say, a good year now, has focused primarily on the many issues related to the need for COVID legislation. Several legislative packages have passed. There's been a 15% increase in the SNAP, or the food stamp allotment, which will run out in June. And the eviction moratorium on foreclosures will also run out at the end of March. So the legislation I am working on now is called the American Rescue Plan. It's President Biden's $1.9 trillion proposal that would build on previous COVID legislation. And if it's passed as currently written, it would do a whole bunch of things that would benefit, I think, low-income families, but businesses and others as well. It would provide money for all phases of vaccinations for people. It would provide assistance for state and local governments, add unemployment insurance, provide those $1,400 economic impact payments we've been hearing about, that would go to people under a certain income level, provide help with rent and utilities and childcare. It also includes the increase in the minimum wage, and it improves the Earned Income Tax Credit. One more piece of that legislation that I'd just like to take a bit to focus on because it would have a tremendous impact on child poverty. I think your listeners are probably likely very familiar with a $2,000 a year Child Tax Credit for children under age 17. But because the credit is based on how much people earn, currently, there are like 23 million children in low-income families that don't get the full credit. And most of these are black, Latino, and immigrant children. So for example, in 2019, families earning between $10,000 and $20,000, received an average of about $850, for the Child Tax Credit, while those earning $75,000 to $100,000, received three times that amount, or they received the full $2,000.

Sister Maxine  
So the people who need this the most are not in the position to get it the most.

Sister Richelle   
That's absolutely correct. And that's why I'm very excited about the part of the American Rescue Plan, because what it would do is it would make the Child Tax Credit no longer tied to the amount a family earns, so that families whose income is low would receive the full amount. The credit would also be increased from $2000 to $3,000 for children over age six, and to $3600 for children six and younger. This would have an enormous impact. Some say that this provision alone could reduce child poverty by 45%.

Sister Maxine  
That's an amazing number. And this is a such great work to be doing. As you work toward this, what kinds of arguments against it could possibly be raised?

Sister Richelle   
For example, some would say, "Well, increasing the Child Tax Credit, for example, and not tying it to the amount a family earns will be a disincentive for work." But we know that that's not ever proven to be true. Families want the dignity of work. They want to be able to provide for their families. So I think that argument is bogus. There are other arguments about this legislation. For example, I mentioned the $1.9 trillion price tag, and some in the conservative world are all of a sudden getting religion back on deficits. They say, "Oh my gosh, this is a huge amount of money." And yet in 2017, when we had a tax cut bill that focused predominantly on wealthy individuals and corporations, no one back then among those folks said, "Ooh, this is going to impact the deficit." So those are just two of the arguments we are sometimes hearing.

Sister Maxine  
When you mentioned the argument about it being a disincentive to work--do you find that there are certain stereotypes about people who live in poverty, that play into people's resistance on some of these issues?

Sister Richelle   
Yes, I definitely do. And it's interesting to me how we talk about programs that benefit low-income, sometimes characterizing them as welfare. And yet benefits that we give to people in the tax code, like to corporations and the individuals that I talked about that benefited so highly in 2017, that's kind of "money they deserve."

Sister Maxine  
That's an interesting thing, because that reflects social attitudes. It occurs to me that so much of your work relies on understanding the economy. And understanding how social attitudes affect ideas about what legislation or what packages are good, and which ones are not as well received.

Sister Richelle   
That's absolutely right.

Sister Maxine  
As you think about past years, the public policy standings that you worked on at the Coalition, are there some in particular, that you would hold up and say, "This was a great accomplishment of the Coalition. We are really proud of this?"

Sister Richelle   
Well, I would start out by saying, the advocacy community in Washington as it relates to fighting on behalf of low income, and families that are living in poverty, is broad and wonderful. So at the Coalition, we never think of the work we do as single-handed; we think of it very much in coalition with others. And there have been some wonderful victories. For example, I just mentioned the Child Tax Credit. The Child Tax Credit used to be based on an income calculation that was much worse than it is now. People are able to get more Child Tax Credit than they used to. And we worked a lot on that. Also, sometimes, it was proactive, and sometimes it was defensive. So I remember a couple of years ago, when the Farm Bill was on the docket, and we were looking at the SNAP or food stamp program, which is reauthorized in the Farm Bill. And there was a lot of defensive work that was needed. And again, it goes back to your comment about stereotypes. So, for example, work requirements. Many in Congress wanted to put stringent work requirements or time limits, like you can only receive SNAP for three months out of two years, or whatever the case may be. But again, built on stereotypes. And we really fought hard to ward off those work requirements. Way back, when I first came to DC, actually one of the first bills I worked on was a minimum wage bill. So we've gotten increases in the past. So those are just a few. But again, the Coalition sees the work we do very much in partnership with others.

Sister Maxine  
You work with such a wide variety of different groups within that alliance that is the Coalition. Could you name a few of the groups that you work with quite a bit?

Sister Richelle   
We've worked with faith-based groups a lot. A lot of your listeners might be familiar with NETWORK. That's where I actually started my time in in DC, but there's a whole faith-based coalition representing all religions, if you would. We work with them. We work with labor unions, a lot of organizations we work with are single issue focused, like they might focus on food or housing. So the variety of people we work with is enormous. It also includes groups that work with certain constituencies--for example, organizations concerned about racial inequality, or discrimination as it relates to, let's say, the LGBT community. So our scope of who we work with is vast. Coalition on Human Needs has 100 national organizations that are our members.

Sister Maxine  
So you get a very, very wide look at overall human needs in this country, all kinds of human needs, through those lenses of those organizations.

Sister Richelle   
That's correct.

Sister Maxine  
We'll pause for a brief break. This is In Good Faith, a program of A Nun's Life Ministry. We want to thank our sponsors and individual donors, like you, whose support makes the In Good Faith program possible. Please visit anunslife.org to make a donation or to become a sponsor of the ministry. We'll be right back.

Welcome back. This is Sister Maxine of A Nun's Life Ministry and my guest, Sister Richelle Friedman, the Director of Public Policy at the Coalition on Human Needs in Washington, DC. Sister Richelle, we were talking earlier about some of the impacts of COVID. I want to go back just a bit to that, recognizing that over the past year, since COVID has really had a profound effect, there are so many people who have come forward very generously. We've seen people who've donated to their churches to their food bank, so many ways to help try to fill the gap for people who are in need. For as generous as people are, can charities help in a significant way?

Sister Richelle   
I think it can help in a very significant way, and provide a lifeline to many people, many of whom for the first time are experiencing need. I would say this as a follow-up: One of the principles of Catholic Social Teachings, which are my touchstone, is that of solidarity. And solidarity says that decisions should be made at the level nearest to where those impacted live. So as it relates to taking on the needs of vulnerable people, we start at the local level. And so I'm imagining a lot of your listeners are working very hard on the local level, to meet needs, as you said, through their churches, nonprofits, government entities, and so forth. Given the current reality, though, many at the local level are faced with lack of resources to meet needs. Just last week, I invited a young woman who's a school support specialist in a poor rural county in West Virginia, to share her experience with staff on one of her senators. Shelly drives around her rural county in Virginia to homes of low-income students to check to see if they have food, if eviction is on the horizon, because they can't pay the rent, or how children doing remote learning are faring. And at one point during the call, we lost connection, because of her poor internet access. Shelly shared that she takes food with her because she knows families need it. She also takes hotspots because of remote learning needs. And many families are grand-families, and the grandparents are struggling with technology. So she talked about food insecurity, lack of broadband, lack of transportation, how families wait hours in line for a simple food box, and then the food boxes run out. So the principle of solidarity says that if a need cannot be met, because there's not the political will, or the way, that the responsibility moves to the next level, which is the state level. There's lots of often good political will at the local level, but the way or the means or the resources aren't there. And we know, also, many states are in financial difficulties. And we see that because hundreds of 1000s of local education jobs have been lost. Over a million public sector jobs, firefighters, police officers, EMT workers have been lost because of the pandemic. So the states often struggle. So that takes us to the national level, which I call the last line of defense: the federal government. We are a wealthy country. We have the way, the resources. The question is, do we have the will? And I think that's a matter of prioritization. And so that's where we as advocates and constituents come in. We must do our part to advocate for funding priorities of our national resources. Priorities include, very much at the top, people who are living in poverty.

Sister Maxine  
When you begin to work on an issue, is it because all of those other levels have been insufficient? At the local level, people are unable to get what's needed, at the state level, and then it comes to the federal level?

Sister Richelle   
There are some needs people have that just cannot be met solely or totally at the local level and require federal coordination. So for example, let's take a look at health care. One of the issues that I worked on back in 2010, when the Affordable Health Care Act was being proposed and worked on and eventually passed, was that of saying there are so many families that are struggling with health care. I think that time, I don't know, something like 15% to 20% of people didn't have health insurance. And we know how devastating that can be. So the coordination at the national level, as well as the resources at the national level, are often needed to address certain issues. And that's one of them.

Sister Maxine  
So it's really having all of those working together, in whatever ways they can.

Sister Richelle   
That's absolutely right. When we think, for example, of the food stamp or SNAP program, the federal legislation provides the resources, but we know that it's food banks at the local level, at the county levels, for example, that take those resources, and make the product available, make the food available for people who need it locally.

Sister Maxine  
And then for those who are involved at the local levels--you mentioned the woman who drives through and checks on people and helps out that way. Do you encounter other people who bring you stories about what they're looking at? That just seems so compelling, because sometimes we can think of work at even a policy level as a little bit removed, but it does not sound like it is removed from what you're describing, the actual human faces of this.

Sister Richelle   
I think it's important for us as much as possible to bring a face to our story. So also, within the last couple of weeks, we had this wonderful woman, Gina in Utah, who works on food distribution, and she talked about the desperate need for food in her area. And that was very compelling. Another story that comes to my mind was a couple years ago, but it really again brought home to me how desperate people can be. We were meeting with staff in a Senate office, that Senator being from the Northeast, and it was winter, and it was very, very cold. And we had a social service person on the call, who shared that one of the people she was working with was so cold and so desperate, that they literally cut up their dining room table to provide firewood to keep warm. And that was one time when I literally saw a staff--because that was an in-person meeting--I literally saw tears running down the cheeks of some of the staff that heard that story.

Sister Maxine  
It is hard to listen to a story like that, where somebody would be so desperate. Do you think that that figures into sometimes attitudes about poverty, the fear that we ourselves may be there someday?

Sister Richelle   
I think that that can be a factor for some people. We don't want to recognize that we might be a short ways from that ourselves. And I found it interesting over the last couple of years, as we think about poverty--there are a large percentage of people that are one paycheck away from poverty. I think about legislators, the people that I work with--now, I mostly work with their staff, many wonderful staff people who I would say get this. I also know that members of Congress, not all of them, but they tend to be personally quite wealthy. And I believe that some of them just don't always get it. I remember working on the minimum wage, and there was a member of Congress who was really resistant. This was a number of years back when we were working on another minimum wage. And I approached that member who during a hearing just seemed to be so out of touch. And so I spoke with him after the hearing. And he said to me, "Well, if people are making a minimum wage, why don't they just go to their employers and ask for a raise?" And I thought to myself, "That is really out of touch. A lot of low-income workers who would ask for a wage would be told, 'Why don't you just find a different job?'"

Sister Maxine  
We're going to pause for just a brief break. This is In Good Faith, a program of A Nun's Life Ministry. We want to thank our sponsors and individual donors like you whose support makes the In Good Faith program possible. Please visit anunslife.org to make a donation or to become a sponsor of the ministry. We'll be right back.

Welcome back, you are listening to Sister Maxine of A Nun's Life Ministry and my guest, Sister Rochelle Friedman, with the Coalition on Human Needs. You can hear previous episodes of In Good Faith on our website at anunslife.org. And you can also subscribe to our podcasts on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, and many others. As I think about all of this, and about our lives as Catholic Sisters, the kind of lens that that brings to it--poverty is one of the vows that we as Catholic Sisters take when we enter a religious life. Does your vow of poverty as a Presentation Sister affect the way you look at public policy?

Sister Richelle   
It definitely does. My community was founded in the 18th century by a woman named Nano Nagle, and we know that the small group of sisters living with her in Ireland, at that time under the Penal Laws, sometimes literally begged in the streets, and not so much for themselves, but for people living in poverty in their midst. And today, there are enormous disparities in income and wealth, not only in our country, but across the globe. So the mission of my work at the Coalition of Human Needs is about addressing the needs of people who are low-income and living in poverty. For that work, I take great inspiration from the foundress of my community and the sisters that have followed her. I love what Gandhi said. He said, "Live simply so that others may simply live." Today, my vow of poverty is about living simply and possessing an attitude of having enough so that others might also have enough.

Sister Maxine  
That's a beautiful reflection on how our tradition as Catholic Sisters, and specifically the tradition of your congregation through Nano Nagle, how that really is such a focal point in life and gives great inspiration and energy.

Sister Richelle   
Yes, it does.

Sister Maxine  
So for our listeners today who would like to get involved and to help change the situations of poverty in our country, what could they do? What would you suggest as a good place for them to start?

Sister Richelle   
Well, first, I'd like to say thanks to so many listeners, who, as volunteers or through your work, are already involved in working on the frontlines to address needs that have been present for a long time, and really are now exacerbated because of COVID. I think it's important to be well informed, to learn as much as possible about what's happening in our country and the world, as it relates to economic and racial disparities, through solid, reliable sources of information. And I would encourage listeners to get involved in whatever ways that their time, talents, and passion leads them, to help actively address growing economic and racial disparities. So maybe it's by doing voter outreach, or writing letters to the editor, or volunteering at a food distribution site or a vaccination center or hosting virtual conversations meant to educate. I think being willing, too, to do advocacy, directly contacting elected officials and relaying stories that demonstrate why we need legislation to address the impact COVID is having now. So again, I think every person has a passion, a talent, and maybe some time, and they can decide what gives them the most energy to do what they can do to address these needs.

Sister Maxine  
And certainly, they can visit the website for the Coalition on Human Needs. And I'll be sure to include that link in the show notes for the podcast.

Sister Richelle   
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Sister Maxine  
Richelle, we are reaching the end of our time together. And before we wrap up, is there any last thought--you know, you had mentioned some encouragement just before--but is there any final thought you'd like to leave with our listeners today?

Sister Richelle   
I'm going to hearken back to the inauguration that just occurred. I was so impressed with the strength of the words of Amanda Gorman, our nation's first ever Youth Poet Laureate, the last lines of her poem on Inauguration Day, I think, are an invitation. I know, I feel the invitation--and the challenge, I think, to all of us to birth the changes desperately needed in our time. She writes, "The new dawn blooms as we free it, for there is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it." The message that I give to myself, and my invitation to others, is: Be brave. Go for it.

Sister Maxine  
Thank you, Richelle, for this incredible conversation. I am so grateful that you were here today with me on the podcast. Thank you.

Sister Richelle   
Thank you so much for inviting me.

Sister Maxine  
And I also want to thank you, our listeners, for joining us today. In Good Faith is a production of A Nun's Life Ministry, helping people discover and grow in their vocation by engaging questions about God, faith, and religious life. This program is made possible through the grace of God and the support of the sponsors of A Nun's Life Ministry, and you, our listeners. Visit us at anunslife.org. God bless.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.