IGF048 In Good Faith - Sister Eileen Reilly, Catholic Mobilizing Network

Sister Maxine  
This is In Good Faith, a conversation about the experience of living faith in everyday life. I'm Sister Maxine, and my guest is Sister Eileen Reilly with the Catholic Mobilizing Network. As its name suggests, the Network mobilizes people across the country to value life over death, to end the death penalty, and to transform the US criminal justice system and society to embrace restoration and healing instead of punishment. Among the many groups the Catholic Mobilizing Network works with are congregations of Catholic Sisters. Sister Eileen, in her role as religious engagement associate, helps Catholic Sisters nationwide in their efforts to end the death penalty and promote restorative justice. Sister Eileen's ministry in peace and justice spans well over two decades. She has worked with parishes and in her congregation, the School Sisters of Notre Dame, on efforts to end capital punishment. Before the Catholic Mobilizing Network, Sister Eileen served for nine years at the United Nations as her congregation's representative. Sister Eileen joins me today from Washington DC, where the Catholic Mobilizing Network is based. Welcome to In Good Faith,  Eileen. Thank you for being here.

Sister Eileen  
Thank you, Maxine.

Sister Maxine  
In a minute, we'll talk in detail about your work at Catholic Mobilizing Network. But let's talk first about the journey that led you here. Where did you grow up? And I realize your voice is telling me part of that answer.

Sister Eileen  
Yeah, so I grew up in Boston in a neighborhood in the city. And I was the second of seven children and a family of seven children was kind of typical in those days.

Sister Maxine  
Were peace and justice concerns part of your family life growing up, part of your upbringing?

Sister Eileen  
Well, not explicitly. I don't think I ever heard those words "peace and justice." But I grew up with a father who was a sheet metal worker who was very active in the Sheet Metal Workers Union. And somehow, I absorbed early on that he was spending his evenings, his extra time, his spare time, working to make things better for other people. So I really think that's the root of it for me.

Sister Maxine  
Was there also an example of the life of faith with them, and they nurtured that in you?

Sister Eileen  
Oh, absolutely. I mean, we were a very Catholic family. I had an aunt who was a nun. I had an uncle who was a priest. Our Catholic faith was a natural part of everything.

Sister Maxine  
When did you first meet the School Sisters of Notre Dame, the congregation that you would eventually join?

Sister Eileen  
Well, in the first grade. So our parish school was staffed by 40 School Sisters of Notre Dame. It was a huge school. So I had them for eight years in grammar school. And then I went to the high school, where there were 20 more teaching us in high school. So I don't know that I even focused that much on various congregations. These were the ones I knew best, and I knew them for 12 years.

Sister Maxine  
Did it seem sort of natural, when you sensed being called the religious life, that that they were the ones?

Sister Eileen  
Absolutely. I mean, I never considered any other congregation because this is what I knew. And being a teacher sounded like a good plan for me. And in those days, School Sisters of Notre Dame were, by and large, teachers.

Sister Maxine  
What was your first teaching ministry, then?

Sister Eileen  
I was sent to Garden City, Long Island, where I taught fourth grade, and learned a lot that first year. Anyone who's a teacher knows that the first year of teaching is a particular challenge. Then I went on to another grammar school in New Jersey. And then I taught in a couple of high schools run by my congregation. And eventually I went back to the high school I had graduated from, and my parents had graduated from, and I taught there. And by that time, the busing integration problems were going on in Boston, the city was tense, there were calls for justice. And it was sort of a wake-up call for me to say, "Is there something more that I can do, other than teaching?" So that led me to a campus ministry job, where my responsibilities were peace and justice. So it was to get the students at the university involved in various activities. So we, you know, did a disarmament march In New York City, and we fed the homeless, and we did all kinds of projects. One thing just sort of led to another.

Sister Maxine  
And then from that role in campus ministry, how did that call to peace and justice further evolve for you?

Sister Eileen  
While I was doing that job, I got an MDiv from Weston School of Theology, masters of divinity degree. And so I begin working in various parishes, trying to promote peace and justice concepts in the parish in the context of pastoral ministry. And then from there, my own congregation asked me to become the full time Peace and Justice Coordinator for the congregation. So I moved into that role. And that led then to my next role, which was to represent the congregation at the United Nations.

Sister Maxine  
I understand that one of the parishes that you served in was in Richmond, Virginia. And that's where you began working on, in particular, the issue of the death penalty. Why was Richmond such a significant place?

Sister Eileen  
You know, I grew up in Massachusetts, where they had abolished the death penalty the year I was born. And so I never thought about it. It wasn't an issue, it wasn't in the news, it just wasn't something I thought about. And all of a sudden, I moved to Virginia, where they were competing with Texas to see who could execute the most people in those days. And it just felt so personal to me. I felt like the state of Virginia was saying, "Eileen, we want to keep you safer. And so we're gonna kill this man tonight." And I didn't feel any safer after that execution. I mean, it was just because it was right there. And at that point, the electric chair for Virginia was in downtown Richmond. So any night there was an execution, a group of us would go down and stand outside the prison and protest what was going on. And on the opposite side of the street would be the people who were cheering what was going on. So it was just such a wake-up call. And it began also my education about the broken death penalty system that exists in this country. There were questions: were some of the people that were executed innocent? Just things like that arose that got me started. So as I tried to learn more and more, and went to a couple of conferences, and so forth, I became acquainted with some murder victims' family members. And of course, they're the most powerful voices against the death penalty. Because when I would give this talk or you know, try to talk to people about my position, invariably, somebody would say, "Well, if it was your mother..." Well, here, I met some people, and it was their mother who was killed or their sister or their brother or their daughter, and they still could stand against the death penalty. So that was just such a powerful, powerful witness.

Sister Maxine  
What were some of the reasons that you heard from them about why they remained opposed, even though this issue touched their life in such a deeply personal way?

Sister Eileen  
One of them is, if someone's sentenced to death, there is and there should be an immediate appeal process to make sure that the state got it right. But the victims were saying that appeal process could drag on for years. The story would be back in the news for years. If the person just got life in prison, we never heard anything more about that person, and we could try to get on with our lives. So that was a big one. Another one was people realizing, "If I lost my daughter to murder, is murdering your son gonna help me at all?" No, it isn't. I mean, the most classic case like that is a man named Bud Welch, whose daughter was killed in the Oklahoma City bombing. And eventually--after many years, it took a while--Bud befriended Timothy McVeigh's father, because Timothy McVeigh's father was about to lose his son. And Bud knew what it was like to lose a child from having lost his daughter, Julie, in Oklahoma City. And those two men became friends. They were a great support for each other. You know, as I say, if anybody can understand what it means to lose a child, Bud certainly could.

Sister Maxine  
You mentioned a prayer vigil as well. In the face of all of this, what difference do you think a prayer vigil could make? And for the people who attended, what difference did it make for the issue and for everyone involved?

Sister Eileen  
First of all, we believe that prayer is important. One of the most dramatic instances of responses I could give to that question is at Catholic Mobilizing Network, we held a prayer vigil last year, on every one of the days, the 13 days in which there was a federal execution. And after one of those executions, we heard from a lawyer in Texas who said, "I have clients on federal death row, and I have clients on Texas death row. And some of my clients have been executed. On the day of an execution, I keep myself very busy and try not to think about it. What a difference it made to me this time to spend an hour of that day in prayer with you." She just thanked us so profoundly for calling her to do something other than just keep herself busy. And as we lament what's going on, we pray for the victims, the victims' families, the person being executed. It brings it closer to us, it brings it into our hearts in a way that I think is important. At Catholic Mobilizing, our goal is to abolish the death penalty across this country in every state. And that's going to be done state by state, legislature by legislature. So as we build up a body of people who are committed to that task with us, prayer as an important part of it.

Sister Maxine  
You had mentioned, too, that just before Catholic Mobilizing Network, you served as your congregation's representative to the United Nations. And that was for nine years. Were you involved in issues of capital punishment at the UN?

Sister Eileen  
A little bit, but there wasn't a lot of talk about it, because it's an issue in so few countries. I mean, we're in company with countries like Iran and Iraq and Somalia. There are no developed countries in this world who still use the death penalty. So although it came up occasionally, and I would be involved when it did, it wasn't a big issue they have because, as I said, it's not practiced in most countries that are member states of the UN.

Sister Maxine  
It's interesting that the US would still be involved in it, when you look at it in that context.

Sister Eileen  
It is. it's distressing. You know, we like to think of ourselves as a world leader, but in this issue, we're certainly not.

Sister Maxine  
You also mentioned that Catholic Mobilizing Network is involved in restorative justice as well.

Sister Eileen  
Absolutely. Restorative justice as a as a concept that's coming into its own more and more. It's an attempt to create a system of justice that is not like the current one we have. So in our criminal justice system, the focus is on what law was broken, and what punishment is appropriate for this person who broke this law. Whereas restorative justice would say, "What harm was done? Who was harmed? And how can we heal that harm, or at least help to heal that harm?"

Sister Maxine  
And so it goes toward the repair of relationships, and community healing.

Sister Eileen  
Exactly. And it recognizes that that community that was harmed is not only the individual who was, let's say, robbed, but that individual's family who is then trying to help with the situation> It's a bigger issue. And instead of focusing on the perpetrator, we focus on those who are harmed, and how can they be held. And sometimes the perpetrator can help with that healing. So instead of just a "lock them up and throw away the key" approach, it's a dialogic approach.

Sister Maxine  
And it seems to be one that calls for, in a sense, some vulnerability. Being opened to--on the part of somebody whose life may have been impacted greatly by the crime--to be open to that reconciliation, instead of saying, "I just want this person imprisoned. I want the problem, so to say, solved or ended."

Sister Eileen  
Exactly, yes. And that kind of healing, when it when it can happen, is ideal. And it happens in a very structured system. So we talk about restorative justice circles. First of all, before we would have one of these circles, everyone has to agree to it because everybody isn't willing to sit down with the person who harmed them, understandably. But if they are, and if the person doing the harm is willing, then restorative justice circle would be convened. And that circle would include anyone who was harmed, in any way by this crime, and it also could include some support people. And the opportunity then is taken to really let the person who did the harm hear what it meant. You know, "How do I feel after you broke into my home, and now I can't ever feel safe in my home again," that kind of thing. And that person needs to hear that. And then also, so often, the victims of crime have questions that they want answers to. You know, "Why me? Why did you pick me? Why did you pick my house? Why did you pick this person? What was going on in your head? Did you think about the implications?" So those kinds of questions can be discussed and talked about in a very structured way, with a facilitator that's careful and direct in terms of the way the conversation goes.

Sister Maxine  
And I could imagine that hearing answers to those questions could bring a great deal of peace as well. I mean, those unanswered questions probably tend to just live with the person for a while.

Sister Eileen  
Oh, absolutely. And haunt them. I can think of experienced myself, years ago when I was living in Boston, and I was mugged. You know, I just got out of a car and was walking into a church and these kids came up behind me, pushed me down so that they could grab my pocketbook and run. And, I mean, the implications of that went on for a long time. I was constantly looking over my shoulder, I was constantly worried that it was going to happen again.

Sister Maxine  
We're going to pause for a brief break. This is In Good Faith, a program of A Nun's Life Ministry. We want to thank our sponsors, and individual donors like you, whose support makes the In Good Faith program possible. Please visit anunslife.org to make a donation or to become a sponsor of the ministry. We'll be right back.

Eileen, you work with Catholic Sisters around the United States as part of your role with Catholic Mobilizing Network. Why in particular Catholic Sisters? What would be distinctive about that group?

Sister Eileen  
Well, first of all, they were key in the founding of the organization 12 years ago. So Sister Helen Prejean, and of the famous movie Dead Man Walking, and her congregation, the Sisters of St. Joseph, were instrumental in the founding of our organization, and they continue to support us in the organization. But there was a realization a few years ago that Catholic Sisters have such potential to be more involved. So my role is to get them more involved and more deeply involved. It's no secret that the population of Catholic Sisters in the US is an aging population. But it's also a huge number of women who are ready and able to do things like write letters, make phone calls, participate in these various efforts to abolish the death penalty. So I was hired specifically to reach out to that group to say, you know, how can we get more involved and more deeply involved. And it's been such a wonderful, wonderful experience. One sister, I called to ask her if she could do something in terms of a letter writing thing. She said something like, "Well, I'll try, but you know, I'm pretty busy because I write letters to the 38 people on death row here in this state." Now, we don't expect that of every Sister, for sure. But we are inviting them to work with us in these efforts. You know, we tend to work with states that have legislation pending. So for example, right now, Ohio is seriously considering an abolition bill in both houses of its legislature. So we're making a big effort to get all the nuns in Ohio--and there are lots of them--involved. And they then can get their parishes involved. They can get their institutions involved. They have a big reach, you know, if you think of sisters' ministries, they have a huge reach. And if we can mobilize that, so much the better. Now, when you get to a state like Utah, where I think there are eight Catholic Sisters in the whole state, it's a little more difficult.

Sister Maxine  
Yes. When we think about all the issues in this world, hunger and homelessness--and in the United States, of course, those are huge issues as well--so why Catholic Sisters' deep interest in the issue of the death penalty, and desiring to end it? Where is that rooted in our tradition and in our teachings?

Sister Eileen  
I think it's rooted in our belief in the basic human dignity of every person. So in the Catholic Church, we talk about the right to life. And we're always reminded that that right to life is from the womb to the tomb. And so here's a pretty egregious violation of that right to life, when any state deliberately chooses to murder one of its citizens. And, as I said earlier, I think some of the worst of the worst of those cases is when it murders innocent citizens. Nobody should receive the death penalty. But the horror of thinking that an innocent person has received it can really be motivating. And in this day and age, we're particularly aware of the racial component of this violation of human dignity. So race plays such a big piece. Religious communities across this country are talking about how to dismantle racism. And this effort could be a huge step in helping with that, because the Death Penalty Information Center just recently released a study on racism and the death penalty. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the odds of you receiving a death sentence, if you've killed a white person, are like three times higher than if you killed a black person. The racism is that overt.

Sister Maxine  
You'd mentioned earlier about the possibility of executing someone who is in fact not guilty. And there have been quite a number of cases of that.

Sister Eileen  
What we know is there have been 185 people exonerated from death row. So we know that at least 185 who received a death sentence, were on death row, and further evidence, further judicial review uncovered that they were, in fact, innocent. Now, everybody thinks of DNA when they hear that, and DNA is part of it. So DNA evidence has contributed a lot to this. But that's not the only cause. Prosecutorial misconduct is a huge cause. Prosecutors hiding evidence, relying on junk science--that kind of thing also contributes to this.

Sister Maxine  
The work of Catholic Mobilizing Network, where do the Catholic Bishops stand?

Sister Eileen  
Oh, they are great supporters of the work we do. As a matter of fact, our organization is an outgrowth of their statement against the death penalty that they made several years ago, and a group of dedicated Catholics saying, "Well, we can do something to promote this statement." And so we have a bishop advisor who works with us, Bishop Flores from Texas, and many, many of the bishops throughout the country support our work--financially, they've been part of our prayer vigils each day there's an execution. They, by and large, are very great, enthusiastic supporters of what we do. We're about bringing forth their message.

Sister Maxine  
There's also parishes, many other groups that you engage with.

Sister Eileen  
Right. And, you know, we connect any way that we can. Sometimes it's, you know, requests from campuses to do a presentation, sometimes it's efforts to reach out when a state is considering abolition. We've done some educational things in Ohio to raise awareness there and hopefully move that effort along. Letter writing, letters to the editor. Celebrating the recent abolition of the death penalty in Virginia in March, that was such a great moment, the first southern state to eliminate the death penalty.

Sister Maxine  
A number of states have already abolished the death penalty, now Virginia among them--23, I believe.

Sister Eileen  
That's right.

Sister Maxine  
So in 27 states, the death penalty is still allowed by law? And to what extent is it used?

Sister Eileen  
Allowed by law, yes. However, three of those 27 have a moratorium declared by the governor. So California, Pennsylvania and Ohio are not using the death penalty, because the governor has declared a moratorium. But of course, that moratorium only lasts the term of the governor. Just like Biden's recent moratorium on federal death row only lasts for his term as president. That's why we're pushing for more than a moratorium on federal death row. In California, the governor went so far as to dismantle the death chamber. So he called the moratorium for his term. But he also made it difficult for his successor to pick it up again, because there's no more death chamber.

Sister Maxine  
Now I understand some of the other states are actually bringing what we might think of as old practices back.

Sister Eileen  
That's the truth. Oh, South Carolina is talking about assembling a firing squad. I mean, is that out of another century or what? Drug companies are making it harder and harder for states to procure the drugs they need for a lethal injection, because no drug company wants their name associated with lethal injections. So that's where some of these efforts to find other means are coming from. The States cannot legally, in some cases, get the drugs they need to go forward.

Sister Maxine  
So they have to find these other methods.

Sister Eileen  
Exactly. South Carolina, the other option is they dusted off their 109-year-old electric chair to get that ready. I mean, would you use any appliance that's 109 years old without testing it? And of course, you can't test an electric chair. But I mean, it's horrifying to me to think of putting somebody in an electric chair that's 109 years old.

Sister Maxine  
What possible reasons could exist for why states would choose not to abolish the death penalty?

Sister Eileen  
The myths still last, and so a big myth that gets circulated is it's a deterrent. You know, we got to do something, our crime rate is out of control, so we've got to do something, so it's a deterrent. But over and over again, statistics have shown it is not a deterrent. States with the death penalty do not have a lower murder rate than states without it. And part of that is just the obvious common-sense thing that most murders committed in the fit of rage, fit of anger. And at that moment, I'm not going to say, "Oh, I better not shoot this gun, because I'll get the death penalty." I mean, it just doesn't work that way. And the death penalty is also--rightly so--it takes a long time to actually enact it. And so people sit on death row for 13,14, 15, 16, 17 years. So the immediacy of that death sentence loses any power it might have with that kind of a term. So that's one myth. The big thing about it's a deterrent. The other myth that persists is, "Well, at least if we kill them, it's over with and we don't have to feed them and clothe them for 40 years on death row." Well, you know what, the death penalty process is more expensive than feeding or clothing them because it has to involve all these appeals. These appeals have to involve several lawyers, several investigators and so forth. So it's been proven, over and over again, that the cost of an execution far exceeds the cost of just keeping somebody in prison, and feeding them and clothing them. The estimate I saw for the 13 federal executions that happened last year, it was over a million dollars for each execution by the time you added up all the costs to move those forward. So that myth persists. Interestingly, there's a group emerging the call themselves Conservatives Concerned About the Death Penalty, and they raise this fiscal issue. So although they might not be morally opposed to the death penalty, as fiscal conservatives, they're saying, "We don't want to spend a million dollars on each execution when we could spend much less, just keeping the person in prison." So that group is having a having a voice and having their say, and they also recognize the innocence thing. So as I say, although they might not be opposed in theory to the death penalty, they're horrified by the prospect of executing an innocent person, and they're quite disturbed about the cost.

Sister Maxine  
We're going to pause for a brief break. This is In Good Faith, a program of A Nun's Life Ministry. We want to thank our sponsors, and individual donors, like you, whose support makes the In Good Faith program possible. We'll be right back.

Eileen, in your work with various groups, do you ever get pushback from a faith perspective that says, "Well, what about the biblical eye for an eye?" What about that?

Sister Eileen  
You must've been in those audiences! [laughter] Yes, of course, you know, we hear that all the time. And I try to point out that the theory behind the eye for an eye, that was articulated in a society where revenge could be a motivating force, and so it was an attempt to limit the revenge. So if I poke your eye out, you can only poke one of my eyes out, not both of my eyes. It was really an attempt to limit the revenge; it wasn't an attempt to say the punishment should be equal. And the other thing is, if we want to get literal and hang on to an eye for an eye, then we have to hang on to the other biblical cautions and prescriptions about crime and punishment. And so disrespecting your father could get you the death penalty back in those days. I don't think anybody would hold on to that in our day. Murder is the only crime in which we do that. If you're an arsonist and burn down my house, we don't burn down your house to punish you. That's just not the way we function as a civilized society.

Sister Maxine  
You were talking earlier about the death penalty, what's going on at the federal level--can you say a little bit more about that, and the work that Catholic Mobilizing Network is doing in that regard?

Sister Eileen  
Yes. We were quite pleased a couple of weeks ago to see Biden announce that there would be a moratorium and while he was president, there would be no more federal executions. But that's not enough. He ran on a platform that said he was opposed to the death penalty. So we're asking him to commute the row. There are 46 people on death row in Terre Haute. With a stroke of a pen, he could commute those 46 death sentences. And that's what we're calling on him to do. And we're calling on him to do this, first of all, because we don't believe those 46 people should be executed. But secondly, it could be the beginning then of a national conversation. So legislation has been introduced in both houses of Congress to abolish the death penalty. However, that legislation is not bipartisan, it's Democratic, sponsored. And so until we can widen the support for that legislation, there's really no hope that it will go anywhere. But we feel that if Biden would set the tone by commuting federal death row, then we could start to work harder on this federal legislation that's pending.

Sister Maxine  
With your work with Catholic Sisters, how can they support that movement that Catholic Mobilizing Network is seeking to advance?

Sister Eileen  
Well, right now on our website--catholicsmobilizing.org--we have a petition for Biden, asking him to do just that. And we've gathered almost 10,000 signatures. We want to make that a much, much bigger number. So Catholic Sisters can not only sign that petition, but again, they can use their influence to get other people to sign it. You know, their ministry colleagues, their families, other sisters. We know that many of them say, "Well, I already signed the petition," but there's more they can do.

Sister Maxine  
And if, let's say, somebody who is listening to this podcast, they would like to sign the petition, can they go and find it on the website and sign it?

Sister Eileen  
Absolutely, you'll see it front facing on the website. It's catholicsmobilizing.org.

Sister Maxine  
And I'll be sure to put that link in the Episode Notes of this podcast so that listeners can easily find that.

Sister Eileen  
Great, thank you. They'll also find the link there if you'd like to join our first Friday prayer vigils every first Friday, from 2 to 3 Eastern Time, we host a virtual prayer vigil for anyone whose execution is scheduled in the coming month.

Sister Maxine  
So the prayer on First Fridays--why First Fridays?

Sister Eileen  
You know, First Fridays have been part of our Catholic tradition for years and years and years. I mean, first of all, Friday itself is always a special day for Christians, because we believe it was on the first Good Friday that Jesus was crucified. But then over the centuries, there has developed a practice of First Fridays being special to Catholics. And so we've continued that tradition.

Sister Maxine  
As we talk about this, Eileen, the seriousness of this issue, the efforts that you and many other people are involved in, and seek to expand that involvement to other people--it's pretty intense stuff. So for you, personally, where do you find hope in this, especially on days that seem like the challenge is never-ending? Where do you draw that hope and inspiration that keeps you going, that helps you take that next step and say, "You know what, this is not over yet."

Sister Eileen  
You're so right, Max. It can be a stressful, exhausting work. I began working with Catholics Mobilizing on July 6 last year, and a week later, on July 13, was the first of the 13 federal executions. I jumped in pretty quickly to this work, just organizing that. And in some cases like that second week, in July last year, there were three executions in a week. So three vigils in a week, three times in a week we had to deal with it. The first thing that I draw on for support is my colleagues at Catholics Mobilizing. It's just so refreshing to work with a group of young, committed Catholics who are so dedicated to the right to life, the dignity of each human life. So that gives me hope. It gives me courage. We also as a staff meet once a month, and we take some time to share with each other what's going on in our hearts. What are our struggles, what are our joys and hopes, and that's it's a very special time. And then of course, I rely on my own religious community, the sisters I live with, and then the broader community of sisters who have become friends over the years. When I was in the novitiate, Vatican Council II was going on. And I remember the excitement when we heard that famous quote from Gaudium et Spes: the hopes, the joys, the griefs, the anxieties of the people of this age are truly our hopes, joys, griefs, and anxieties. And that's been to so much a part of my spirituality over the years. It was a call to put aside the Jesus-and-me kind of spirituality and to embrace a spirituality that embraces all people. And so the more I get to know, the murder victims' family members, the people who are exonerated from death row, the people who are struggling to pass legislation, the more their hopes, joys, griefs, and anxieties become mine and mine become theirs. So it's been a journey. A good one.

Sister Maxine  
You had mentioned earlier the website. For people who want to join you on that journey, in addition to those links for the prayer, what other kinds of resources will they be able to find on the website?

Sister Eileen  
We have several what we call one-pagers, so a one-page summary of race and the death penalty. You know, how does the issue of race impact the death penalty. We have one on race and restorative justice. Once or twice a month or so, we publish a blog, in which we invite various of our constituents to share, you know, their unique perspective on how they come to these issues of restorative justice and the death penalty. We also recently released an engagement guide for people who want to get more involved in this restorative justice effort and what they can do. So that's on our website. And then links to various organizations. An opportunity to sign the national pledge to end the death penalty, both as an individual and /or as an organization. So I'm trying to collect religious congregations' signatures to this pledge to end the death penalty, but individuals could also sign it. So I think you'll find a wealth of resources, and also links to other resources.

Sister Maxine  
Well, Eileen, we have come to the end of our time today, and I want to thank you for the ministry that you do--so greatly needed here in the United States. Thanks to you and to Catholic Mobilizing Network.

Sister Eileen  
Thank you, Maxine. It's been fun to be part of this conversation. And I'm thrilled that others will have the opportunity to hear more about our ministry because it's so needed in our time.

Sister Maxine  
And we'll see you on one of the first Friday prayer vigils.

Sister Eileen  
Great.

Sister Maxine  
In Good Faith is a production of A Nun's Life Ministry, helping people discover and grow in their vocation by engaging questions about God, faith, and religious life. This program is made possible through the grace of God and the support of the sponsors of A Nun's Life Ministry, and you, our listeners. Visit us at anunslife.org. God bless.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.