IGF059 In Good Faith with Sister Margaret Kruse - Uniting to Fight Human Trafficking

Sister Rejane  
Hello, I am Sister Rejane Cytacki of A Nun's Life, and my guest today is Sister Margaret Kruse, a sister of St. Francis of Assisi. Her community is located in St. Francis, Wisconsin, just south of Milwaukee. Our podcast was fittingly recorded on the feast day of St. Josephine Bakhita, the patron saint for people caught in modern-day slavery, or human trafficking. Sister Margaret is passionate about raising awareness and ending human trafficking. Her community is one of seven women religious congregations, and one Lutheran Church, that collaborated to found Sisters Program South, located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Sisters Program South is a drop-in center for women who are trapped in human trafficking. This is a safe place for women to get off the streets, get their basic needs met, as well as providing resources to help them start a new life. Now how did Margaret begin her new life as a Sister? Sister Margaret's call to religious life began at a young age, when she was growing up in rural Iowa. She encountered Sisters of St. Francis as teachers during her Catholic school years. Once she entered, she started in education herself, learning quickly that farm life accustomed her to a more flexible schedule. She then went out to California's San Joaquin Valley to work with United Farm Workers, where she met and worked with Cesar Chavez. After two years, she came back to Iowa and found her gifts naturally aligned with pastoral ministry in parishes. She worked in parish ministry for over 30 years. She then was elected to leadership in her community. And that is when her support and work with Sisters Program South began. Welcome, Sister Margaret. Thank you for being with me today.

Sister Margaret  
You're most welcome. I think I'm going to enjoy this.

Sister Rejane  
Absolutely. And today we're actually recording on the feast day of a relatively new saint, Sister Josephine Bakhita. And you know, she's the patron saint of people that are kind of trapped in modern-day slavery. And it's become an International Day Against Human Trafficking. Am I correct?

Sister Margaret  
That's correct. Yes. And it's wonderful to be able to have it actually on her feast day. So this is wonderful.

Sister Rejane  
Yes, yes. Sister Margaret, you've been so active with the anti-trafficking movement, especially in the Wisconsin area, with a program called Sisters Program South, which comes out of the Benedict Center, which was founded in 1974 by the Capuchin Brothers and the Racine Dominicans, who are very near and dear to my heart, with my time at Wisconsin. I didn't realize that they were instrumental in starting that.

Sister Margaret  
When we started to look at the whole issue of human trafficking -- one of the sisters that was working for the School Sisters of St. Francis wanted to do something on the South Side for women, especially women who had been trafficked. So she pulled together different communities in this area, and asked if one or two people from the communities could come together to look at the issue. So I was on leadership at the time. And I represented our community. And it took a couple of gatherings that we start talking about what could we do. And then out of that, we decided we needed to reach out to other groups already doing things with trafficking and women who were in prostitution and the like. So we invited different groups to come in, talk to us about what they were doing, and then some of our ideas, and that was back in 2014. Out of that group, we had the Benedict Center looking at us as a possibility, because they wanted to start something on the South Side. And out of that, we start communicating and having meetings with them. And it took about a year and a half to two years for us to really come to creating the Sisters Program South. And it's a place that is a respite area for women who are in prostitution or who have been trafficked. And they can come and rest. They even have beds where they can lay down and sleep for a while. They have clothes and food and provide meals there for them as well. So it's really a great respite area. And it's been now going since 20017, and I've been gone for four years. So I'm coming back, and I'm on the board now. And it's just wonderful to see the advancements of things that have been happening over those four years that I was gone. And I'm just really excited about them working so diligently with these women. They do outreach on a regular basis, they have people come to the center part where the building is and the like. So it's been really wonderful.

Sister Rejane  
Yeah, I saw a picture of the van. Is that what you use for outreach?

Sister Margaret  
Yes.

Sister Rejane  
Okay. Where you go out and look for women, right? And touch base, if they're out and about?

Sister Margaret  
Right, they I think go out two to three nights a week, for probably four to six hours. And just touch base with different women in different places. The building where the Sisters Program South is about 16 blocks away from the main area where they are doing prostitution. So they have to go to those places just to make the contacts.

Sister Rejane  
That's quite a distance, isn't it? So to have the van is pretty important.

Sister Margaret  
Yes.

Sister Rejane  
Hmm. Gosh, so then the Benedict Center is up in the north part. So it sounds like there's kind of a triangle ...

Sister Margaret  
Well, what happened was, they already had a place on the North Side that they were working out of. And they were looking for a place on the South Side, because what they found, the more they worked together with law enforcement, the police, lawyers, and all of that, the more the pimps kept moving south. And so they were trying to follow the movement that was happening. And so to be able to start one on the South Side was really important for them. So what has happened is that we, as women religious, support the workings of the Sisters Program South; we don't actually do the work with the women. We provide the finances and support that they need. And that has really worked well with us. We have seven different communities that are doing this, and the Ascension Lutheran Church. So we have one church and seven communities. And what was told us at our last board meeting was that because this collaboration has worked so well, what they've done on the North Side is they've invited parishes to be the collaboration group for the North Side. So over there, they have seven Lutheran churches and one Catholic Church. That is the collaboration. And so they're doing this all together. So the partnering has been wonderful.

Sister Rejane  
I just think that's incredible. I think that's the way to go, to be kind of ecumenical. As Christians, we're called to go to the people on the margins. It's a wonderful model. Just a wonderful model.

Sister Margaret  
It is, yes. And like you said, the Benedict Center has been in existence since the 70s. And I've just been amazed. I did not realize how much collaboration they were doing. And that, too, makes it exciting, because they have five different areas where they are partnering with different groups of people. And, for instance, in the housing area, they work with HUD, they work with different groups that are doing shelters, Exploit No More has a new home called Freedom House. And then there's St. Catherine's and the cathedral, who also house women. And one of the big things that they had difficulty with is when they did find a woman that wanted to get out of prostitution, they had nowhere to put her. So over the last five to six years, they've been able to develop these places. And now the Bakhita Catholic Worker House has just opened up. And it too has six beds or six bedrooms for women who have been trafficked. So there are more places for them to go and begin to have some safety.

Sister Rejane  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first thing is get them off the streets and into a safe place.

Sister Margaret  
Right.

Sister Rejane  
And then you can start doing some of the wraparound services, if you take care of the basic needs.

Sister Margaret  
Correct.

Sister Rejane  
And that's why you need all this collaboration between not only Christian groups, but all these nonprofits that are out there.

Sister Margaret  
Yes. And that has been true in terms of their whole human services. They work with outreach partners, the medical field, different advocacy groups, and even in the legal area, Benedict Center is working with the courts and law enforcement, and even the jails. And they have been able to get some laws through that will not put women in jail. They have a choice of either coming to Sisters Program North or South, or going to jail. So they have some choices now that they never had before, which I think is wonderful. And then they also have a program called Bridge Services, which deals with the education and peer support, and also how to get employment. So they're taught different kinds of employment skills. And this is all collaborated between different groups throughout the city. So it's really a wonderful project in terms of collaboration, I think.

Sister Rejane  
Oh, yeah. And then you've talked about the North Side and the South Side. And yet, now it's moved kind of to the West, where some of the pimps and the prostitutes are? Are you finding you're going to have to move services that way? Has there been talk about that?

Sister Margaret  
Well, that came up at our last board meeting: do we need to look at this. So we just organized two subcommittees. One is how to do fundraising or friend-raising so that we can get more funds to come in. But the other one is a Development Planning Committee, which is to look into the future. And they're saying, do we need to move further west? And so that's something that is just starting now to be looked at. I have a feeling they probably won't, because the women seem to need some distance between where they're working and getting help.

Sister Rejane  
Oh, that makes sense.

Sister Margaret  
Even though it's hard for some of them to get to the place.

Sister Rejane  
Okay.

Sister Margaret  
So we'll see how that works.

Sister Rejane  
I've never thought of that. There's still the tension of “How do I get there?” But at least it gives them distance and makes them feel safer.

Sister Margaret  
Yes, yes. For sure. Yeah.

Sister Rejane  
So how did you first learn about her human trafficking yourself?

Sister Margaret  
I have been working with our Justice and Peace and Integrity of Creation Office for probably the last 40 years. And when I was in office from 2007 until 2015, I was always in connection with the Justice and Peace Committee, and we were starting to look at different issues, and one of them was the human trafficking that was going on. And so in '13, we started a subcommittee on human trafficking and started to look at what that all entailed. We looked at videos, we got information. And then we started to see that we needed to educate the community about this. And so we gathered our sisters together and began to talk about it. We brought in some speakers, we brought in some women who had been trafficked. And then from there, we went out to about three or four different parishes in the area to let them know as well, because we felt it was important for people to know that Milwaukee is one of the central areas for human trafficking, because we're at the middle place between Detroit and Minneapolis. And so the trafficking comes right through Milwaukee.

Sister Rejane  
So you're saying like people from both ways, right? Detroit to Milwaukee to Minneapolis, and vice versa?

Sister Margaret  
Correct. And if they pick up someone in Milwaukee, they immediately take them off to one of the two directions. So they get them out of the area.

Sister Rejane  
Where they're familiar and where they support?

Sister Margaret  
Yeah.

Sister Rejane  
Oh, okay.

Sister Margaret  
In some cases, that does happen. It depends on if they have more or less kidnapped some people, some women. But the thing that is appalling to me, is that the age of women starting -- they start them at 10 to 12 to 13 years of age.

Sister Rejane  
Wow.

Sister Margaret  
Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's the hard part.

Sister Rejane  
Yeah, that's heartbreaking. I mean, your body is just beginning to develop. And you're trusting of adults.

Sister Margaret  
So yeah, it is heart-wrenching. For sure.

Sister Rejane  
Oh, my goodness. We are going to take a moment for a brief break. This is In Good Faith, a program of A Nun's Life Ministry. We want to thank our sponsors and individual donors like you, whose support makes the In Good Faith program possible. Please visit anunslife.org for more information, to make a donation, or to become a sponsor of the ministry. We will be right back.

Welcome back! I am Sister Rejane of A Nun's Life Ministry, and my guest is Sister Margaret Kruse. You can find past episodes of In Good Faith, and all our podcasts, at anunslife.org, and on all the major platforms where you get your podcasts. I'm sure for our audience, if you were to just even do a search for St. Josephine Bakhita, or anything anti-human trafficking, there's a lot -- and we'll put something in the Show Notes as well, for resources for our listeners, especially identifying signs of human trafficking and just learning what to do if you even suspect someone is being trafficked. Can you talk about any of that? Just briefly, what that looks like?

Sister Margaret  
Well, for one thing, if people want to just go on YouTube and put in "human trafficking," it is amazing how many different YouTubes are out there specifically on that, giving great facts of what to look for, what is happening, the age of people. It's got a lot of stuff out there. So I would suggest that that could be one of the best educational things for people who have not had any background in human trafficking yet.

Sister Rejane  
Sure. Sure. And I would just say for our audience, I think we often think human trafficking is people from that are coming from other countries, but what you've been talking about is even in our country, people, women in prostitution, women as young as 10 to 12, get groomed and brought into this industry.

Sister Margaret  
Yes.

Sister Rejane  
It goes against the dignity of being a human being.

Sister Margaret  
Yes. Right. Yes. As a matter of fact, one of the examples of women who have been at Sisters Program South, she was a Native American who, in her early 20s, was trafficked, and was working on the streets trying to raise enough money -- she had to have a specific amount of money to give to her pimp. And if she didn't, then she would have to stay out there until she got that amount. And because of this, she developed an addiction to opioids and somehow got in connection with the Sisters Program and started going there for the hospitality. And over a period of time, began to trust the people that were there, and has since been able to move out of prostitution and away from her pimp, and has her own apartment, is employed and is on her own, but comes back to the program, just to have the support that she needs to keep going on that. But to be able to see some successes is just really wonderful. And it takes many, many years for that to happen. They said that oftentimes before a woman will trust them, it'll take up to six to eight times of them coming back and forth. And they may also totally get out of prostitution, but then fall back into it again, because they get more money from the prostitution than they do from their employment. So it takes time for that to happen. So it's a real process.

Sister Rejane  
Right. And just all the healing of the trauma. There might be mental health, might be addiction, like you mentioned. I mean, it's like trying to reset your life in a different way.

Sister Margaret  
Correct.

Sister Rejane  
That takes a lot of courage.

Sister Margaret  
It does.

Sister Rejane  
Hard work. And failure. Like you said, it may take time before they can stick it out, so to speak. Well, thank you for sharing a success story. I think that's wonderful that our listeners hear that. But it's an investment of a lot of people's hearts and money and resources to make that happen.

Sister Margaret  
Yes. I was gone for four years, I said, and I was in Iowa doing a retreat work. And when I came back, I found out that our sisters that are in assisted living, and even some that are in around the clock care, have done a real variety of things that pertain to this topic. They've had different people from the Sisters Program South come in and talk about it with them, as well as the woman who is now the director for the Bakhita Catholic Worker House. So they're trying to understand what this is all about. And out of that, they were able to do a variety of activities that would help support these places. So they do knitting -- they have hats and gloves and scarves that they send to the Sisters Program South, to the Catholic Worker House, and to a few other places here in town. And they're trying to also be a support to other things that are happening. Like I think it was in August of September, the St. Catherine's shelter for trafficked women was needing to renew its license. And so a group of people went down to support and advocate for that. So there's just been a real great variety of things that some of the sisters have been doing in support of the human trafficking issue. And what it says to me is that it doesn't matter how old you are, that you can still do some things. If you can't move much, you can use your hands; if you can, you may be able to go and help with advocacy or support people in another kind of way. So that just really was exciting to me to see the variety of different things that our sisters were doing, even though they're anywhere from 80 to 100 years old. So it's really great.

Sister Rejane  
I think it's good for people to hear that. Because even if you're not active, like producing something, or bringing in a salary, you can still use the gifts that God gave you -- and be aware of people's needs around you.

Sister Margaret  
Mm-hmm.

Sister Rejane  
And take an interest. That's wonderful.

Sister Margaret  
Yeah. They've made bag lunches for the outreach at the Sisters Program South. They've made a meal for the Bakhita Catholic Worker House. They've sent other meals to other places. So yeah, you can really do a variety of things because of the gifts that you have.

Sister Rejane  
Gosh, well, thank you for sharing about the ministry and how many different Catholic women communities are involved in it. I think that's wonderful. We are going to take a quick break. Thank you to all our donors and sponsors who support A Nun's Life Ministry and our In Good Faith podcasts. If you have any questions or comments about this podcast, please leave us a message at 913-214-6087. We would love to hear from you, our listeners. We will be right back.

Hello, listeners, we are back. Remember to fill out our listener online survey that can be found in the Show Notes. Your feedback is important to us. Let's finish our conversation with Sister Margaret Kruse. So I'm going to switch gears. I'm gonna ask you about your vocation story, kind of starting back in your childhood. And how did you first encounter the Sisters of St. Francis of Assisi?

Sister Margaret  
I grew up in Iowa. I'm from a farm. I come from a family of 15. And so back then, there was a real support in terms of the parish providing Catholic education for people -- and the sisters from my community were our teachers. So it was through them that I came to know the community. As I said, I grew up on the farm. And so at the age of 18, I decided I wanted to become a Sister of St. Francis of Assisi and joined at that time. So that's been 56, going on 57 years ago. I'm an oldster. [laughter]

Sister Rejane  
I like that term. I haven't heard oldster -- I like that. But we never retire. That's what I love telling people: there's still energy! We just keep going. There's no formal end.

Sister Margaret  
Energy. Energizer Bunny.

Sister Rejane  
Yeah. That's so great. Oh my gosh. Well, was there a lot of faith within your family that you think helped attract you to religious life?

Sister Margaret  
Well, we were all farm families in the area where I grew up, and because of that, we all had large families. And so it was very much encouraged for us to look at different kinds of ways of going in life. And so if a person had any inclination towards religious life, that was encouraged. So like from my little hometown of Houghton, where I grew up, we had over 20 people come to my community. And within the 12 mile radius, we had Houghton, West Point, and St. Paul. And out of that area, about 90 women went to three different communities. So it was really highly encouraged. And it was one of those things that was just a part of the faith life at that time. I am the last one that came from Houghton, which has been 56 years ago. And I think the thing that was different is that in the 60s, the whole area of possibilities for women to move into different kinds of ministries and jobs opened up tremendously. And I think that began the change of women looking at religious life. And so since then, I think women joining communities has declined drastically.

Sister Rejane  
Yeah, yeah. We've seen that across the board. It is true. Well, what was a typical day like for you in your childhood? What were you doing on the farm? I can only imagine.

Sister Margaret  
Oh, my goodness.

Sister Rejane  
I worked at Eco Justice Center with lots of animals.

Sister Margaret  
Well, we had the traditional kind: chickens, and cows and sheep and hogs. My sister and I, who was just a year older than me, we were in charge of the chickens. And we usually averaged about 1000 chickens, but a couple of times, we had up to 2500. And they were at three different places. So at an early age, we learned to drive the car so we could get to these different places to get the eggs and to feed the chickens. So it was very typical to get up early in the morning to work with the eggs. And after school, going out and getting them, feeding the chickens, and making sure things were okay. And then a couple of my other brothers and sisters did the milking. Some did the feeding of the cattle and the hogs. So a typical day was always different. It was very flexible as to when you did the stuff, but you knew that you had the responsibility of getting your part of the chores done. And so it was very typical to get up early and go to bed late.

Sister Rejane  
Okay. Kind of long days, but you spent a lot of time outside.

Sister Margaret  
Most of the time.

Sister Rejane  
Yeah. My mom grew up on a farm and she helped with the chickens as well. She and her sister and her mom. And she always talked about candling, where you had to hold the egg to make sure it was okay.

Sister Margaret  
It was okay, yeah. [laughter] We didn't have roosters, so we didn't have to worry about that part. We didn't have fertilized eggs at all.

Sister Rejane  
Okay. Yeah. They did. I guess that's how they kept the flock going.

Sister Margaret  
Okay. Yeah.

Sister Rejane  
Working that land, and care for creation, has been a big part of your life. And I know it took you into one of your ministries, working with the migrant farmworkers and Cesar Chavez, am I correct?

Sister Margaret  
Well, I don't know if that helped me to get there or not. [laughter] One of the things that I began to do after I graduated from college was I taught for four years at one of our schools and found that really wasn't where I could best use my gifts. I needed a more flexible schedule. And I think that came from being on the farm because the schedule was so flexible. So I had to ask the leadership in my community -- there were several of the sisters in my community that were working for the United Farm Workers union already, and they had let some of us know what they were doing and what kinds of openings there were, that they needed some help. So I and another one of our sisters asked if we could go out to California, just to be there with the migrants. And so we went to the headquarters the first year, and we were doing daycare for the volunteer families that were there. And then the second year, we went into Delano, where the migrant families needed daycare. So I did daycare work out there for two years. And when we weren't doing the daycare, we were usually in the city doing the boycott work. And so they always said that in two years, you were really living five years. And I believe that, because the intensity of the work was so, so much that you just did many, many hours of work. So growing up on the farm helped that, I think. [laughter]

Sister Rejane  
Yes! I'm sure there wasn't always a typical day with the United Farm Workers, was there?

Sister Margaret  
No. Not at all.

Sister Rejane  
Do you have any stories to share from meeting Cesar Chavez?

Sister Margaret  
I think what I learned from that experience was that he was an ordinary person, just like you and me. And that, even though he was a head of the union, he really was working for the betterment of his own people. And he was also living out of what he had learned to as he was growing up. So there were times when he would make snap decisions that I didn't think were really good ones. And other times when he really deliberated on things that needed to be done. But out of it, his basic thing was that he was working to make sure that his people were respected and had a dignity in what work they were doing -- and oftentimes were treated very badly. So his working as a union really was key, and it still is operating to this day, even though he's gone now.

Sister Rejane  
And what did you think of being in California, versus Iowa and Wisconsin? Was that a shift?

Sister Margaret  
A very big one. I came to realize that I needed four seasons of the year, and not two. And I was out in the desert area. So you had the hot hot heat in the summer, and the cooler foggy weather in the winter, to the point where you could not even see your hand in front of you, the fog was so thick. And so it was very dangerous during the winter time, because they were always irrigating, and then the cold air would come in at night and create the fog. So I didn't really care for the weather. In that area, I don't know what it's like in other parts of California. But in the San Joaquin Valley, where I was, it was a real challenge to be able to drive during the day and at night. And because we worked all day, we if we needed to do grocery shopping or go other places, it always had to be at night. And that could be very dangerous. So it was a whole different experience. Yes.

Sister Rejane  
Did you pick up some Spanish while you were there?

Sister Margaret  
It was interesting. Yes, I began to understand people. But it's been now -- what is it? Close to 50 years since I've been out there. And so I don't remember it anymore. But I was beginning to understand those that were speaking. And I think if I would have stayed out there longer, I probably would have learned it.

Sister Rejane  
Sure. Sure. And what were the crops that they were working with when you were there?

Sister Margaret  
In our area, it was mainly vegetables. So a variety of different kinds of vegetables in that area.

Sister Rejane  
That's quite a ministry that you were able to do. So you were only out there two years. What did you do when you came back to the Midwest?

Sister Margaret  
Well there, I began to say, what do I want to do? And so I got into parish ministry. And as a matter of fact, I met a priest from Iowa, who was from my hometown area, who was on a picket line in Chicago. And that's where I met him. And he said, "If you would like, I'll go back and talk to our parish council and see if you could come as a parish minister." And so I said yes, and got an okay from the community and went to Farmington/ Keosauqua area, which is about 20 miles west of where I grew up. And I was doing ministry there for eight years. The Van Buren County was 2% Catholic. So it was very low in Catholicism and a lot of visiting was necessary. So I did visiting the parishioners and did the religious ed and helped with the liturgy and a variety of other things in the parish, and found that that was something that I really loved. And went on to do that for 30 years in four different parishes in the Iowa area. And it was where I needed to be, and gave me great joy to just work with a team of people, and to do it with the people of the parish. So it was really great work.

Sister Rejane  
Well, I can hear in your story of trying to find where your gifts and talents match with the ministry. And just when you said that, I hear the joy in your voice. Do you have a highlight, an accomplishment from your time in parish ministry that you would like to share?

Sister Margaret  
I think one of the greatest gifts I was given was to work with people who wanted to join the church. The RCIA or the Rite of Christian Initiation that we have in the Catholic Church is probably one of the greatest things that could be done, if it's done correctly, where you have people from the parish involved with those who are interested so that they can share with each other what we are about, and then to see how things begin to open up over a period of time. And then to do the rites that can be held at different points in this process really intensifies the whole experience of joining the church. And every year, I would just be astounded at the faith life and the excitement these people would have in being a part of the church. And then to get them involved in the church once they were a member of the church. It was just really a great reward for me.

Sister Rejane  
Sure -- to have that energy, right? And that joy of "I'm joining this community, and how can I use my gifts and talents to better the whole?"

Sister Margaret  
Yes.

Sister Rejane  
That's wonderful. Gosh, so you've done a lot of different ministries, and then leadership on top of it, right? For your community. [laughter] So you did two terms, or was that one term?

Sister Margaret  
It was two terms.

Sister Rejane  
Two terms.

Sister Margaret  
For eight years.

Sister Rejane  
Okay.

Sister Margaret  
Yeah. And that, too, was a whole learning process for me because I had not been involved with what went on at the top level at all. We have 10 sponsored ministries, so even to learn what they were about was a major thing for me -- all the ramifications of that, the decision-making that had to be done in relation to that, was astounding. And then to learn the other aspects of community. And in the process, we also were looking at how inefficient our motherhouse was. And the Chapter that we had when I went out of office decided that we needed to build a an assisted living/ memory care/  around the clock care building. And because of that, we would have to take down our old motherhouse. And then in the end, we ended up taking also down our big chapel, which was very sad. So there's been a lot of losses for our community, like a lot of places, a lot of religious communities. But it's really teaching me how we need to be open and let go of what the physical is because God has something else in mind. So the whole thing of Francis not having anything -- well, we're being called to the same thing, I think, as a congregation.

Sister Rejane  
And it's both outer and physical, as well as your inner resources. You have that institutional memory of making your vows in that chapel, of the Chapters in that motherhouse, the meetings, and you had to let go of that.

Sister Margaret  
Yes.

Sister Rejane  
But you have to grieve. That that has to be acknowledged. I always liken it to our Paschal mystery of that letting go, grief, but then it allows the birth of something new and new life comes out of it. But we have to live through it -- you can't skip any of the stages.

Sister Margaret  
No, you can't. Yes. And now we're being also asked to let go some more because we're in the process right now of certifying our assisted living so lay folks can come in, both men and women. So it's another whole adjusting to another form of life, where our older sisters are saying, "We don't have a place to live anymore, that we can call home." And that is true. They're being called to even let go of what they thought was going to be their home. Now they have to share it with other people. And that's proving to be another big step in terms of letting go.

Sister Rejane  
Oh, thank you for sharing that. We've talked in this conversation about providing a safe space and a home for people who have been trafficked, to even your own sisters having to let go of a home "just for me -- but now I have to share what God has given us." Yeah. It's a different way of life.

Sister Margaret  
Very different. Yes. And we don't even know what that's gonna look like yet, because it hasn't happened. But it's going to happen very soon. And then when we get that certified, our memory care unit -- they will begin to do the licensing for that which will open up also for other people to come in. So yeah, so the whole place will literally shift.

Sister Rejane  
Yes, yes. And I think that's so much of what the Holy Spirit is: it's about movement. I think as humans, we want to have like something concrete and stable all the time.

Sister Margaret  
Yes, yes.

Sister Rejane  
But God is constantly challenging us. "I know you're secure here. But you gotta move." [laughter]

Sister Margaret  
God has a way of doing that to us.

Sister Rejane  
Sister Margaret, thank you so much for this conversation. I really, really do appreciate you taking the time.

Sister Margaret  
Oh, you're most welcome. This has been very enjoyable. I appreciate it myself.

Sister Rejane  

Good. I'll be holding you and your community in prayer. God bless and thank you.

Sister Margaret  

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

Sister Rejane  
In Good Faith is a production of A Nun's Life Ministry, helping people discover and grow in their vocation by engaging questions about God, faith, and religious life. This program is made possible through the grace of God and the support of our sponsors of A Nun's Life Ministry, and you, our listeners. Don't forget to call us and leave a message. Tell us what you like, ask a question, or just say hi. Call 913-214-6087 and visit us at anunslife.org. God bless.  

This podcast has been lightly edited for readability.